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Old September 25 2013, 07:52 AM   #67
Pavonis
Commodore
 
Re: The episode "Distant Origin"

Tiberius wrote: View Post
My problem is that you seem to be of the opinion that everything that Humanity has made will be destroyed. All traces of human civilisation - every single thing we've ever accomplished - will be lost to the depths of time.
Everything? No. The vast majority? Yes. Furthermore, what survives will probably be the least advanced and the most common, not the most advanced and most rare.

I'm asking you how you can say this when we know for a fact that something as delicate as an eggshell, or footprints in wet mud can last for millions of years.
Pure, unadulterated, completely blind, luck. Nothing else but that is responsible for preservation of eggshells and footprints. Whatever we leave behind will be a matter of luck, too.

Yes, I am fully aware that the vast majority of eggshells, footprints not to mention bones, teeth, etc from back then have been lost. But the fact that these delicate things survive for millions of years is proof that things that would appear to have no chance can actually survive through deep time. So if the idea presented in the episode is true, that dinosaurs had a culture, then we would see some of that today.
Where would we see it, and how would we recognize it? Besides, how can you safely assume that an alien culture (and a dinosauroid culture would be just as alien as anything from another planet) would have the exact same technologies we have? What if intelligent saurians mainly used wood and clay to construct their cities, rather than steel and glass? What if the dinosauroids had advanced computer technology like silicon chips, but preferred (culturally) to live in hobbit-holes? What can we safely assume about an alien culture? Nothing, I say. Nothing is necessarily the same between radically different cultures - not the same technology, or the same pace of development or the distribution of technology. And after 65 million years, what would their remains look like? Almost nothing would remain, and anything that did would be unlikely to be stumbled over, and anything that did survive and was found might not be recognized as an artifact from an advanced alien culture.

I'm not saying there was some kind of alien dinosaurian culture that lived and died over 65 million years ago. I'm saying that if something like that had happened, it would be incredibly unlikely to be recognized and/or found. The odds are against it.

In any case, we see things that could NOT be if the episode's idea was true - namely dinosaur nests. I doubt that a species that is advanced enough to develop spaceflight is going to think that the best place to raise children is from piles of dirt in an open field. And yet we've found plenty of dinosaur nests.
OK, now you're just being obtuse. I don't think the implication was that all dinosaurs were members of an intelligent, tool-using, highly-advanced culture that happened to lay eggs in the dirt. That's not even implied in the episode. What Chakotay was (wildly) speculating on was the greatest of a society that lived and managed to survive among some rather terrifying creatures, some of whom deposited eggs in dirt mounds. Not that the intelligent ones did that. Of course, they could have done that...they would be alien after all, and aliens do weird things....

Last edited by Pavonis; September 25 2013 at 08:10 AM.
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