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Old September 18 2013, 01:35 AM   #251
Re: Scaling the Excelsior Filming Model

Praetor wrote: View Post
Workbee wrote: View Post
This was what I was looking for.

My thought is, option one for swirl core, with either swirl or tng core is fine. Simplest is best, and with the lower humpback portion seemingly dedicated mostly to shuttle bay / cargo hold, best to let the transfer conduit run along the top of the secondary hull. Similar to how depicted to the Enterprise B MSD I suppose. I still think since there is an impulse deflector crystal of sorts, it should connect up to, and align to it. Beyond that, I am open. It looks like they took care to frame the shot of Excelsior's engine room in TSFS to avoid the main warp core / conduit (since it was a redress of the Enterprise engine room). I think that frees us to depict the core however we wish. Could be anything really. Maybe it's really neon yellow with hot pink stripes
Holy crap in a hat... that's fantastic. I wonder if that was really used on screen? At the very least, matching text blocks to the montage of onscreen cutaways, it seems pretty accurate. Thanks for presenting that, Workbee! How'd you come across it?
HAH... brute force. Just mad, persistent searching deep into the wild recesses of google images. Apparently someone in Japan is a real fan of the Excelsior. Probably lots of useful stuff to be found here at if you can read Japanese.

This is *almost* screen accurate. I think it is just something fan made. This person seems to have made corrections to the impulse deflector crystal to make it match the TUC model (the image used in TUC did not reflect all the changes to the model for the movie. Aside from the colors, the NX and the transwarp labels, this version is probably the closest to what was used in the movie.

Praetor wrote: View Post

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
What was the TOS Enterprise doing in "That Which Survives"?

She was accelerating to Warp 10 or 11 (IIRC) because antimatter was streaming into the matter-antimatter integrator (reaction chamber?) and they couldn't shut off the stream because Losira had sabotaged it. The fail-safe mechanisms apparently were programmed to inject reaction matter and as a result so much energy was fed into the warp engines that the structural integrity of the ship was severely compromised. Either Scotty was able to shut off the antimatter flow or he would have been jettisoned, either with just the antimatter pod or the whole engineering core assembly (IMHO).
You may be right... I suppose in actuality Starfleet engineers would take both scenarios into account.

Interesting interpretation - I'd always assumed the photon exhaust to be related to the torpedoes, like others. However, a variation of your theory makes a good degree of sense. It's part of why my versions have a smaller matter tank in the neck. I think the area under the impulse engines makes too much sense as primary tankage not to use, plus it also sets the precedent for a ginormous tank that later swaps with the lower, more southern tank.

Haha, I like it! It fits well enough IMO. I'm definitely going to incorporate this notion.

I'm thinking a combination heat sink/energy exhaust thingy would be a perfect explanation for these grilles, as you and Bob suggest.

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Praetor wrote: View Post
Option One, Swirl Core: ***SNIP***
This has primary deuterium tankage under the impulse engines, secondary tanks in the neck, and antimatter tanks in the humpback. While I suppose the vertical core could be ejected, it would leave a hell of a lot more inside the ship horizontally.
I'd go with this one, but add some kind of secondary reactor in the "hump" between nacelle pylons. Something almost NX-01ish.
This is the way I'm leaning - frankly because it's too good to have the antimatter pods in the hump to not use it. That, in turn, necessitates the swirl core. In case I forgot to point it out, the core is purposefully aligned forward of the dual deflection crystals (which I realized actually do glow on the Lakota, albeit red) to coincide with the center of the previous, larger deflection crystal.

My only hesitation in this area is that using the swirl core will require us to ignore what the warp cores were shown to look like in TUC. But frankly, I'm prepared to do that. I'm already going to ignore the bridge shape, no matter what size she ends up being. What's interesting is, this ends up giving us an intermix chamber that's mostly horizontal after all.

I'm thinking the thing in the hump along with the pods will be a combination antimatter injector/EPS manifold. Antimatter pods could be ejected up and away from the humpback, each nacelle could be independtly jettisoned, or in the direst of scenarios, the entire pylon/nacelle assembly could be jettisoned. I suspect this design feature was intentional, given the risky nature of the Great Experiment.

One thing I'm slightly torn about is dropping the horizontal shaft a deck, as I have done. We know from source diagrams that the top of the secondary hull (the "flattop") has cargo bays directly beneath, which helps explain the flattop itself. To my thinking, these then interconnect to the main hangar bay below. Dropping the PTC a deck as I've done makes more sense, but limits interconnectivity between the port and starboard sections of the cargo bay.

Then again, given that each one is about the size of the refit Enterprise's cargo bay (ish) I may be able to futz with their configuration a bit to allow greater connectivity slightly lower, while still keeping the PTC relatively out of harm's way. (It makes sense that a ship that was conceived to go farther on its own than the prior generation would have increased cargo and support facilities in this manner.)
Question: Why does it have to be one deck lower for the swirly pattern instead of the TNG version? Though if this turbolift guide is screen accurate, it looks like it may have to be one deck down.

I had a thought that helps me reconcile the TNG core seen in TUC. What if that is just a diffuser that goes over the swirly core. Meaning that they are all swirly cores, but some are just configured to pulse. Voyager may be explained as a sort of prototype of the new "subspace friendly" warp drive that just didn't get the diffusers in place. Or maybe it is best just to ignore Voyager.

My point to all this is, the way the TNG core was presented in TUC may not create a problem. As long as it wasn't shown PULSING like in TNG, it could be explained as a new cover. I'll have to go back and check, but the only problematic scene that comes to mind is when they depart spacedock, there is a reflection of the pulsing core lights on the office window that Scotty is standing in. I am comfortable with disregarding a reflection, but now we are doing some real contortions just to rationalize a set reuse. But heck, if other movies can have us accept things such as poor reproductions of the Oval Office being the ACTUAL office of the President of the United States, I can accept that a TNG warp core is actually the TMP warp core.

Also, wasn't there an episode of TNG where the Enterprise got a new Warp Core installed? So apparently these things can be replaced and upgraded. Giving the option that during TSFS and TVH, they were swirly cores but later on TNG-ish cores were installed.

Sorry for the crazy long post --- I am still getting the hang of the quote feature on this board. Praetor - I dropped the image from your quote to avoid stretching the thread out even further.
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