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Old September 17 2013, 11:03 PM   #250
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Re: Scaling the Excelsior Filming Model

Workbee wrote: View Post
This was what I was looking for.

My thought is, option one for swirl core, with either swirl or tng core is fine. Simplest is best, and with the lower humpback portion seemingly dedicated mostly to shuttle bay / cargo hold, best to let the transfer conduit run along the top of the secondary hull. Similar to how depected to the Enterprise B MSD I suppose. I still think since there is an impulse deflector crystal of sorts, it should connect up to, and align to it. Beyond that, I am open. It looks like they took care to frame the shot of Excelsior's engine room in TSFS to avoid the main warp core / conduit (since it was a redress of the Enterprise engine room). I think that frees us to depict the core however we wish. Could be anything really. Maybe it's really neon yellow with hot pink stripes
Holy crap in a hat... that's fantastic. I wonder if that was really used on screen? At the very least, matching text blocks to the montage of onscreen cutaways, it seems pretty accurate. Thanks for presenting that, Workbee! How'd you come across it?

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
What was the TOS Enterprise doing in "That Which Survives"?

She was accelerating to Warp 10 or 11 (IIRC) because antimatter was streaming into the matter-antimatter integrator (reaction chamber?) and they couldn't shut off the stream because Losira had sabotaged it. The fail-safe mechanisms apparently were programmed to inject reaction matter and as a result so much energy was fed into the warp engines that the structural integrity of the ship was severely compromised. Either Scotty was able to shut off the antimatter flow or he would have been jettisoned, either with just the antimatter pod or the whole engineering core assembly (IMHO).
You may be right... I suppose in actuality Starfleet engineers would take both scenarios into account.

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
Back to Excelsior's neck (sorry, can't let go of this). The black thing at the connecting dorsal's stern is annotated as "photon exhaust" in the Official TMP Blueprints.

The only way I can rationalize this is an exhaust to get rid of photons or gamma rays and could have something to do with the vertical intermix chamber coil nearby. The whole thing sounds rather exotic and strange to me.

If it's connected with the intermix shaft, this could be a lead interpreting what the outer structure of Excelsior's neck (and the sides of its nacelles) is good for.

However, it would then appear that Excelsior (in contrast to the Enterprise) has no "space matter" or "space energy" intakes, although the forward thingies in the neck could be space-energy attraction sensors (otherwise absent on the Excelsior).

I'd tend to assume that the back of the neck is "photon exhaust" while the neck's forward structures are space matter / hydrogen intakes but I'm definitely open-minded to listen to other and better interpretations.
Interesting interpretation - I'd always assumed the photon exhaust to be related to the torpedoes, like others. However, a variation of your theory makes a good degree of sense. It's part of why my versions have a smaller matter tank in the neck. I think the area under the impulse engines makes too much sense as primary tankage not to use, plus it also sets the precedent for a ginormous tank that later swaps with the lower, more southern tank.

Workbee wrote: View Post
Going back to the Warp Core, I am thinking a swirly type could work fine as the main difference between TOS Movie and TNG Era Ships are that in the TOS movies, nacelles only glow blue when going to warp. In the TNG era, they tend to glow blue continuously (for the most part). This suggests a change where the engines are being continually primed. The "pulsing" of the TNG engine room (as well as the Ent-E and Defiant Engine Rooms) match up in my mind with the continuously glowing nacelles -- it keeps them primed with minimal power consumption until they hit warp, then the pulsing gets faster.

Perhaps this is the work or refinement of transwarp drive -- initial implementation put too much wear on the components, and by keeping them continuously primed they last longer. This may also help keep radiation levels at bay, so future generation starships after the Excelsior class needed to devote less surface area to these radiation sinks.

Of course, this is all just being pulled out of my butt, so take it for a grain of salt. Unfortunately, it doesn't really fit with Voyager or the NX-01.
Haha, I like it! It fits well enough IMO. I'm definitely going to incorporate this notion.

Workbee wrote: View Post
The Enterprise-C had similar features on part of the neck. Maybe the problem with transwarp is one of stress or heat / radiation buildup. Preliminary tests and proof of concept were successful, the problem occurs when trying to scale it up. The excelsior could have been designed with a more reinforced spaceframe and venting capability. Hence the massive neck covered with heat sinks.
I'm thinking a combination heat sink/energy exhaust thingy would be a perfect explanation for these grilles, as you and Bob suggest.

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Praetor wrote: View Post
Option One, Swirl Core:

This has primary deuterium tankage under the impulse engines, secondary tanks in the neck, and antimatter tanks in the humpback. While I suppose the vertical core could be ejected, it would leave a hell of a lot more inside the ship horizontally.
I'd go with this one, but add some kind of secondary reactor in the "hump" between nacelle pylons. Something almost NX-01ish.
This is the way I'm leaning - frankly because it's too good to have the antimatter pods in the hump to not use it. That, in turn, necessitates the swirl core. In case I forgot to point it out, the core is purposefully aligned forward of the dual deflection crystals (which I realized actually do glow on the Lakota, albeit red) to coincide with the center of the previous, larger deflection crystal.

My only hesitation in this area is that using the swirl core will require us to ignore what the warp cores were shown to look like in TUC. But frankly, I'm prepared to do that. I'm already going to ignore the bridge shape, no matter what size she ends up being. What's interesting is, this ends up giving us an intermix chamber that's mostly horizontal after all.

I'm thinking the thing in the hump along with the pods will be a combination antimatter injector/EPS manifold. Antimatter pods could be ejected up and away from the humpback, each nacelle could be independtly jettisoned, or in the direst of scenarios, the entire pylon/nacelle assembly could be jettisoned. I suspect this design feature was intentional, given the risky nature of the Great Experiment.

One thing I'm slightly torn about is dropping the horizontal shaft a deck, as I have done. We know from source diagrams that the top of the secondary hull (the "flattop") has cargo bays directly beneath, which helps explain the flattop itself. To my thinking, these then interconnect to the main hangar bay below. Dropping the PTC a deck as I've done makes more sense, but limits interconnectivity between the port and starboard sections of the cargo bay.

Then again, given that each one is about the size of the refit Enterprise's cargo bay (ish) I may be able to futz with their configuration a bit to allow greater connectivity slightly lower, while still keeping the PTC relatively out of harm's way. (It makes sense that a ship that was conceived to go farther on its own than the prior generation would have increased cargo and support facilities in this manner.)
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." - Q
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