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Old September 17 2013, 12:01 AM   #393
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Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
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kirk55555 wrote: View Post
I also didn't need to learn that Duncan really doesn't like gay people, that seems like the kind of fact that just makes Duncan seem like an unlikeable a-hole. Its not even like it was a throwaway comment, its a full conversation that just made me wonder what the point is. I guess it was more of FH's philosophy, but I just don't see the point. If it was philosophy, I'm not sure what side FH was trying to support, either.
I'd have to reread that, but I think part of it was that Duncan himself was heterosexual, and during his time with the Fremen, he internalized much of their culture and attitudes. Homosexuality/lesbianism were, to the Fremen, anathema. As in any tribal culture, people who refused to conform, refused to do their part in reproducing the next generation, were detrimental to the tribe's survival, and therefore were not to be tolerated.

As for FH's own opinions, who cares?
I don't really care, its just somethingthat came to mind while I was reading the book. I get the fremen thing, although I think Duncan's opinion was formed before the few months he spent with the fremen (he also made an ass of himself when it came to women soldiers, so I don't think it was his fremen experience that made him an ass).

Personally, I'm heterosexual but I think everyone has the right to be with whoever they want. It was just weird to see that section of God Emperor. I didn't remember that paticular topic ever coming up in the Dune books, so it kind of caught me off guard. It doesn't really effect my opinion of Duncan, he's just more of an ass than I remembered (I actually like Duncan, but God Emperor was definately not his finest hour). It was not a big deal, and when it comes to weird parts of the book I have more problem with Nayla and her climbing "excitement", its just something I didn't remember and that surprised me a bit.
It's been a while since I'v read the book, but my recollection is that Duncan witnesses some Fish Speakers getting up to hanky panky and promptly freaks out. As for the author's views, I think Leto's reaction says it all. He's patiently amused by Duncan's attitude, asserting that it's perfectly natural and even citing Alexander the Great to dismiss any notion that homosexuals can't be effective soldiers.

In Duncan's defence, he's a product of his time and upbringing. Clearly, in 10,191 AG Imperium societal attitudes had swung back towards that sort of thing being an abhorrence, thank perhaps to the prevalence of OC Bible. Another more personal factor may have been some negative connotations associated with the Baron's tastes and perhaps Harkonnens in general.

Leto on the other hand was pre-born with Other Memory. With the total accumulated knowledge of his ancestors, any illusion any notion of an absolute morality was probably the first thing he lost.
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