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Old September 10 2013, 08:37 PM   #243
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Location: The fine line between continuity and fanwank.
Re: Was the Enterprise A actually the Yorktown?

Avro Arrow wrote: View Post
Albertese wrote: View Post
Actually, I'm more for rejecting Jein's numbers all together. I realize later day Trek went with them and enshrined many of them in the on-screen canon, but I'm willing to ignore such business.
Yeah, this is pretty much how I feel as well.

Avro Arrow wrote: View Post
I like FJ's numbers as well, with a slight modification for Intrepid so that her number actually appears on the "Court Martial" chart. The only major sticking point for me is that darn 1017, which makes even less sense than Jein's 16xx numbers. That's why I tend to think that Constellation was an older, smaller ship that only superficially looked like the Constitution class. The old AMT model kit in the original version helped with this. Of course, TOS-R *didn't* help with this, but if I'm already ignoring the Jein registries used in TOS-R...
1017? Don't you mean 1710. I don't see no stinking 1017.

Avro Arrow wrote: View Post
From an in-universe perspective, why would Starfleet bother remaking these older ships to look like Constitution class ships, rather than just installing upgraded weapons/sensors/whatever into their existing spaceframes?
Agreed. Given that the refit of the 1701 is unique in the franchise - no other starship has ever been shown to be remodeled to that visual extent - we may wish to assume such things are rare. Or not, and we just never see them.

Avro Arrow wrote: View Post
I'm on board with this. "Starship Class" works much better as a generic type designator. Starfleet just went from using the generic type class on their plaques in the 2240s, to using the actual nominal class of the ship on their plaques by whenever the Defiant was commissioned.
I can live with this. I still kind of like Bob's suggestion that "Starship Class" means "class of the Starship's name" and the Enterprise was "really" Enterprise class all along, with the other members of the uberclass being Constitution. Maybe some Achernars and Bonhomme Richards just for the hell of it.

YMMV, naturally.

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
@ Albertese & Avro Arrow

Is there any good reason to assume that the starship status chart from "Court Martial" only shows starships being repaired in orbit of the starbase?

NCC-1831 (formerly assumed to be Intrepid) is almost done, so why pull the repair crew off to start work on the Enterprise?

For all we know this is just the general Starfleet chart to indicate all starships that are still in need to receive essential upgrades.

Commodore Stone may be well aware of Intrepid's condition but a look at the "upgrade" chart tells him Enterprise badly needs these in addition to the repair work following the severe "ion storm".
I think it is quite intentional that these were ships currently at the base, based on the context in which it was shown. Why would a starbase commander looking to repair a ship that is asking his facility for service give a crap about ships not at his base? Yet another reason why I dislike Mr. Jein's assumptions.

For a real world comparison, would the overseer at a modern Naval base care about the repair status of ships at another base?

Albertese wrote: View Post
I think there is plenty of reason to think that these ships are present at the moment. For one thing, Stone looking at the chart to determine where he can grab extra repair crew from suggests that those repair crews are local, not spread throughout the Federation.

Also the fact that this chart is labeled as "% COMPLETE" would seem to suggest that there is work currently happening on these vessels. Ships "still in need to receive essential upgrades" wouldn't have a progress bar like this. One would imagine ships in need would appear as a simple list, with no progress, seeing as how they are not yet being worked on. Doesn't make sense to send out a starship with only 12% of her refit competed, does it?

Besides, what business is it of Commodore Stone's what every ship's refit and repair needs are? It seems more likely to me that he is looking at a chart for just those ship's he is responsible for. I think it's interesting that Stone wears a red shirt. I like to assume that Mendez was still the actual C.O. of the base, but was gone for whatever reason and his "first officer" Stone was in charge while he was away. This might be supported by his title in the closing credits: Portmaster. Why would the portmaster need to know about everyone else's status? He really should just be focused on his own job, I think.

No, while I usually am a little annoyed whenever someone pedantically invokes Occam's Razor, in this case, I really do think that the chart representing those ships actually at the starbase being worked on makes the most reasonable sense. It's the simplest answer, given the context as I see it.
Pretty much agreed.

The Librarian wrote: View Post
This is just plain insane. It is utterly, completely absurd to claim that the bridge from Relics is not the Enterprise bridge. To anyone who isn't going over pictures of the set with a microscope to point out how they didn't perfectly replicate it for one scene in one episode, it looks identical to the TOS bridge. Meanwhile, you suppose that Scotty, Picard, and the Ent-D computer all completely mistook the bridge for that of another starship class entirely. How do you explain the fact that the holodeck, which presumably has access to Starfleet visual records, came up with the wrong ship?
While I agree with Bob that it's awfully odd that the computer didn't ask Scotty to specify which version of the bridge of the 1701 he wanted to see, it's clear to me that the production team did intend this to be the bridge of the ship during Kirk's 2265-2270 heyday. Though there were some differences with the partial set used, mostly due to budget and time as I recall, a still establishing shot was used that IIRC was straight out of "The Mark of Gideon."

I think we can chalk this up to "It's a holodeck. It's not a perfect recreation" and leave it at that.

The Librarian wrote: View Post
“Trials and Tribble-ations” (DS9)
Hey, Dax and Sisko are only Starfleet officers getting ready to go aboard the most famous ship in history, on a vital secret mission. I'm sure they didn't check the deck numbering at all. It's not like Dax didn't live through that time period or anything. Oh, wait, no. That again requires assuming the characters are complete idiots or that Starfleet somehow lost all records about the ship.

Sorry, but no amount of TNG-bashing on your part is going to change reality. Maybe the term was in flux back in the early TOS days, but at this point denying that it's what the ship's class is.
I don't think it's necessarily bashing the sequel/spinoff series if you want to try to extrapolate original intent.
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." - Q
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