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Old September 7 2013, 07:12 PM   #221
Albertese's Avatar
Location: Portland, OR
Re: Was the Enterprise A actually the Yorktown?

Okay, hold on, I may have missed something here, but I have a few questions...

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
IMO, we can't have cake and eat it, too, i.e. accept Greg Jein's conjectural "Constitution Class" but disregard his conjectural registries.
Isn't this this exactly what you're doing with your M-5 arguement? You are utilizing Jein's numbers for the these ships to advance the theory that series 16 ships were a more vital target to M-5's strategy. And yet, are also saying that series 17 can not be Constitution-class? Seems to be cherry-picking to me. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Let's not kid ourselves. Greg Jein's treatise is obviously the reason why "Constitution Class" made it into the Star Trek Concordance along with the registries in the first place which was adopted by the Okuda's Encyclopedia and therefore constitutes the "dogma" Dukhat found so funny (good, I'd rather be the reason for fun than agony).
I'm not sure that's so obvious. Jein's "Jonathan Doe Star Ship" article wasn't published before 1973, while Trimble's first use of Constitution-class being applied to Enterprise was done in the 60's. In fact, one of the lines of argument that Jein used was that his system happened to line up the name Constitution with Commodore Stone's NCC-1700, which had already been assumed by that point. In fact, the whole argument hinges on the lining up of that bottom registry and NCC-1701 for Enterprise. I think we can say for a fact that Trimble's use of Constitution-class predates that of Jein's. In fact, the Concordance doesn't even bother with registry numbers at all. However, I concede that Jein's numbers were the basis of Okuda's work, as he comes out and says so in the Star Trek Encyclopedia.

I have another question for you: If NCC-1700 was not the Constitution, then what was it? Stone's chart from CM most certainly does contain NCC-1700. If indeed Enterprise is the first bird of the 17th series, then why is there a "00" ship at all? The concept that the "00" ship was the prototype of the series (being something other than Enterprise) and the Enterprise is indeed the first production version of the series, works nicely with the evidence of there even being an NCC-1700 and doesn't violate any quote of our much revered Mister Jefferies. I'm curious what you take NCC-1700 to be, given that it is obviously in the 17th series yet, being "00", would necessarily come before "01" in a sequence...

However, once we closely look for canon references on behalf of "Constitution Class" (and regardless of our interpretation of "canon"!), we will have to acknowledge that the only reliable one that suggests the TOS Enterprise to have been a Constitution Class starship is Sisko's remark in the DS9 episode "Trials and Tribble-ations".
I still wouldn't be so quick to discount Picard's line in "Relics" or the reference in "The Naked Now."

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