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Old September 6 2013, 02:26 PM   #214
Re: So many Mirandas/So few Constitution-refits?

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
blssdwlf wrote: View Post
Upon further look, that initial explosion glow is just simple glare. The problem with the torpedo exploding directly between the impulse deck and the bridge module is the lack of light hitting the front of the impulse deck.
There's CONSIDERABLE lighting of the front/starboard ring of the impulse deck in the frames immediately after the explosion and immediately before the "secondary sparks" begin to manifest themselves. And even then, some of the lighting effect remains visible on the starboard side of the bridge.
That lighting is not visible at the beginning of the explosion. The evidence of it visible after the explosion tells us that they belong to secondary sparks. There is no way that the initial explosion could be between the impulse deck and bridge module.

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
Unless they're Starfleet Training vessels in TWOK's time where they are trained to fire live torpedoes at target drones.
You mean the target drones you just totally made up off from your own imagination, purely for the sake of argument?
Oh, you mean these imaginative items: Crazie Eddie wrote, "Besides, a lot of the equipment they'd have on board for such a mission would be specialized for training purposes in particular. The Navy does this all the time with recoverable munitions -- particularly torpedoes"

So a training ship like the Enterprise wouldn't be carrying training equipment from our imaginations but live, working gear. I'm good with that.

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
Not usually, no. Especially when you consider the Enterprise' missions didn't always involve beaming down to a planet.
Sure, but they can visit one after a few days.

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
They ARE practicing their jobs while in space. For 90% of the crew, their jobs are tedious and boring manual labor over extended periods of time while the senior officers and a random selection of specialists do all the exciting work planetside (or sitting at your duty stations minding your own business until a malevolent demigod decides to turn you inside out for no reason).
Then by practicing all their jobs in space, the ones that need to beam down to survey or get scanning equipment ready to explore some random planet from orbit would get to do that. What's the problem with that?

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
Are you being sloppy with your terms again or are you under the impression that "training ship" and "active duty" are mutually exclusive?
In TWOK, apparently they are. Spock did say that the ship was not on "active duty." I do agree that trainees can still get training on an active duty ship fitted with live gear.

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
Because she's a commissioned officer with a standing rank within Starfleet's normal chain of command. If Kirk granted field commissions to every noncom on the ship, Saavik would still outrank them.
That doesn't answer whether she was still a cadet or not.

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
More importantly, she goes from the Enterprise training mission straight to science officer on the Grissom without returning to the Academy. The other trainees are all noncoms and enlisted men (they were never at the Academy in the first place) but in Saavik's case, it would seem really odd. Why does she get to skip graduation and go straight to a prestigious new assignment?
Kirk as a cadet went to Axanar on a peace mission. It doesn't sound unusual for cadets to go out on field missions.

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
The answer is painted on Saavik's collar: Starts out red, switches to white, and she doesn't even get promoted in the meantime. This means Saavik has qualified for transfer to the Command Division through her performance on the Enterprise, which is pretty much the same transition Deanna Troi went through on the Enterprise-D.
She's red throughout the entire TWOK movie so she's still a cadet then. She only gets a white shirt when she's in TSFS and it could very well be possible that she graduated. Perhaps all she needed was a beam down mission to check off the last of her graduation requirements

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
The thing is, Enterprise wouldn't be all that effective in preventing a conventional attack. Certainly less so than a more advanced starship.
What proof do you have that she wouldn't be effective against a conventional attack and that she is less advanced?

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
That's because Enterprise has never BEEN in a straight up fight with 2 to 3 Klingon warships, either before or after the refit. It's successors certainly did, though, and in almost every case where this happened, they wound up getting pwned.
Her successors are not the same Enterprise we're talking about. As you've pointed out she's never been in a straight up fight with 2 to 3 Klingon warships so you don't know. (She has been against 4 sister ships under M5 in "The Ultimate Computer", fired on by 10 Romulan ships in "The Deadly Years" and exposed to fire from 8 Klingon warships in "Errand of Mercy".

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
They decommissioned it literally days after its last (and arguably most successful) combat mission, at which point it is quite possibly the very last Constitution class ship still in service. If it's not obsolete, it's pretty damn close.
Or she might've been scheduled to be replaced when they finished the Enterprise-B? There really isn't anything specific about the ship that tells us that it couldn't be upgraded like all the other ships to keep up with technology.

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
Why would the Chancelor of the high council fly to Earth on a 100-year-old battle cruiser?
Hey, if you're willing to ask that question then why would the Federation send an obsolete ship to escort him?

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
It's not like Cartright was making the decision as he's called out by the CinC as being against it. They had plenty of time to assign a different ship, one that could be more "front-line" than what you think the Enterprise is.
You're forgetting that Spock personally laid the groundwork for the diplomatic efforts himself and "personally vouched" for Kirk in his behalf.
He vouched for Kirk. If the ship wasn't up to par then they had plenty of time to put Kirk on a more capable ship.

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
And more powerful than technobabble is the hero captain
And there's our answer.

The reason there are so few Constitution class starships in the 24th century is because they are designed to be badass-hero: their primary power source is a badass Captain capable of imbuing it with his personal gravitas.

Mirandas were designed from the beginning to be badass-normal: they perform just the same no matter who's at the helm. With more powerful badass-hero ships like Excelsior coming out, the Constitutions were not suited to carry on in a rear-line role and the Mirandas and Constellations filled her mid-range exploration field.
Or the Excelsiors just replaced the Constitutions in role? It's not like there was a Reliant-Excelsior that came along so the Reliants were kept around because no better replacement came along.
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