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Old September 6 2013, 03:11 AM   #212
Re: So many Mirandas/So few Constitution-refits?

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
blssdwlf wrote: View Post
The port rim is brightened, especially the far port (left). The beginnings of the fireball has increased the rim lighting.
I just realized what you call "brightening" is, in fact, the fireball itself. This is incorrect: the "far port" of the impulse deck is not even visible behind the fireball and certainly isn't "brightened" by it.

You're also failing to account for the fact that the that same flash illuminates the starboard side of the bridge dome in the same frame, and the fact that the starboard side of the impulse deck is illuminated by the glow from the impact point.
Upon further look, that initial explosion glow is just simple glare. The problem with the torpedo exploding directly between the impulse deck and the bridge module is the lack of light hitting the front of the impulse deck. However, the light spillage we see is consistent with glare.

Based on the trajectory, the torpedo would've detonated to the port side of the impulse deck.

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
They ARE trained on how to fire it. That's what simulators are for (and also battle drills in the field). Training vessels are not for teaching cadets how to use the ship's weapons, they're for teaching them how to MAINTAIN them on a day to day basis.
Unless they're Starfleet Training vessels in TWOK's time where they are trained to fire live torpedoes at target drones. You thought they shouldn't carry live torpedoes in the first place but since they do then why couldn't they practice firing live ammo?

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
Another real world parallel: aviators on training carriers do not conduct scramble drills, mock airstrikes or air-to-air engagement practices. They use those carriers mainly to practice LANDING.
Not everything must exactly parallel real world.

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
And 90% of the crew isn't involved in ANY of those operations. Moreover, even the 30 to 40 people on board who ARE involved spend the majority of their time performing other shipboard duties between planets; your starship will be in space for weeks, sometimes months at a time before it ever gets near another planet.
In TOS, it only took days (not weeks) to go from planet to planet. There's plenty of opportunity to go planetside.

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
THAT is what training ships are for: not to teach trainees the exciting parts of their job, but the boring/repetitive/tedious jobs that make the exciting part possible in the first place.
It's not until the advent of holodecks a century later that Starfleet officers can spend the bulk of their free time dicking around on the holodeck.
I think you're shooting too low. Of course they have to learn the boring stuff, but they have a fully operational ship like the Enterprise so it would be unusual for cadets not to practice all their jobs while in space. And to the holodeck point, the lack of holodecks would push to more real training instead of simulations.

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
They were still TRAINEES to be sure. Their status doesn't change just because their ship got commandeered by an Admiral to take care of what was expected to be a minor emergency.
Ah now they're trainees being trained on an active duty ship.

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
That would be Lieutenant Saavik, the ship's only command school candidate, who is already an officer in Starfleet.
She maybe an officer but how do we know she's not still a cadet?

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
That's just it: if the Klingons were going to take out Gorkon it would be, by definition, an inside job. Enterprise was there as a deterrent to keep the Klingons from trying something. That deterrent failed.
Deterrent would just be a part of the escort mission. Since there was no conventional attack made, being a deterrent worked and it required a group of insiders sabotaging the mission and framing the Enterprise as the attacker.
SPOCK: We have volunteered to rendezvous with the Klingon vessel that is bringing Chancellor Gorkon to Earth, and to escort him safely through Federation space.
Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
Obviously Starfleet didn't expect General Chang or somebody to send a whole squadron of warships after Gorkon (as Duras did when he went after Gowron) because a single starship wouldn't be able to handle that situation anyway.
Maybe, maybe not. We don't know how the Enterprise would fair against 2 or 3 Klingon warships in a straight up fight at that time.

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
Until you are able to show the Enterprise failing against a conventional attack...
Nothing needs to be shown.
Because you can't prove that the Enterprise would fail against a conventional attack. I don't even think you can show the Enterprise is even obsolete.

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
Enterprise was inadequate for the task it was assigned.
If you mean by internal sabotaging, then yes.

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
The reasons for it are many and nuanced, but it remains the fact that her being assigned to escort duty is NOT evidence that it was still front line material.
That's doesn't make sense. Why would the Federation assign a non-front-line ship to escort Gorkon then? It's not like Cartright was making the decision as he's called out by the CinC as being against it. They had plenty of time to assign a different ship, one that could be more "front-line" than what you think the Enterprise is.

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
Plot armor trumps arguments of being obsolete
An obsolete starship equipped with plot armor remains obsolete, even if it IS totally bad ass. Indeed, the only thing more powerful than plot armor is technobabble.
And more powerful than technobabble is the hero captain
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