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Old September 2 2013, 11:11 PM   #59
Re: Resigning from Starfleet

Umm... Wesley Crusher?

And youngsters were regularly allowed into military academies in the past. That was sort of the point: train them while they are young, since they have no use for advanced age in their chosen profession.
Wesley took exams just before his sixteenth birthday, so he would have been sixteen at least when he entered the academy. that a big leap from 13 years old. We can safely assume since he had not applied before that sixteen is the minimum entry age ( also borne out by Picards statements).

Dialogue and visuals directly establish that Saavik is a Lieutenant. In the real world, that means she cannot be a Cadet. If one wants to evoke a fantasyland rule that Lieutenants can be Cadets, one may - but that's going against obvious evidence and requires some sort of proof.
Yet the evidence also implies that Saavik is a cadet, Command school appears to be part of a command cadets training, and in two realities Kirk was a cadet when he took the Kobayashi maru, the test she was taking - thats followed by Kirk noting that Spock wants to see how his cadets did in the test.
That and the information we have from TOS makes it fairly obvious that Starfleet does not work the way real world military academies do. Which is fine, since as a fictional academy that is partially military three hundred years in the future there is no basis for it being beholden to the real world.

Really, saying that Saavik is a Cadet is like saying that she's actually male. That's perfectly possible, but extremely unlikely. And her being called "Mister" doesn't really cut it as proof for that latter claim...
Come on Timo, I think we both know thats not a valid argument its an appeal to absurdity....

I don't see any reason why he would have mentioned it. The fifteen-years-as-friends thing was already established. Also, nobody ever said anything requiring correcting, such as "Mitchell met Kirk as a Lt at the Academy" - all that was said was that some people warned Mitchell of Lieutenant Kirk.
Yet the statement implies that Mitchell met Kirk at the academy, not conclusive in itself but it adds to the weight of evidence that Kirk held rank at the academy. Its clear what the intent of the statement was.

That hinges on the "already". And the "already" only comes after the cadets are sent to defend the Federation aboard a fleet of starships. Uhura is never a Lieutenant until the moment of being assigned to the Farragut.
There is no basis for that statement, nothing says any of the cadets were given rank after the crisis. Again a seventeen year old holding the rank of ensign indicates that cadets did have rank prior to that. So Uhura was almost certainly a lt prior to the crisis while she was a cadet.

STXI is ambiguous on who is a cadet and who is a graduate and a commissioned officer. None of the rest of Trek is. And the real-world background on this is that cadets are not commissioned officers or vice versa; going against that requires a lot of explaining, usually more than is required to fudge the issue in favor of the real-world model.
STXI is explicit as to who is a cadet, they wear cadet uniforms and attend the cadet meetings. Again this is a fictional show set three hundred years in the future so reality is irrelevant to the way Starfleet works, after all a repeat offender from the midwest could not just enroll as an officer so easily in the real world either. But the real world model does not have any baring so its all good.

The only explaination required for commisioned officers in the academy is that Starfleet commisions officers in some form while at the academy. And the evidence indicates that they do.

otally false - go rewatch the first season of TNG.
Good call, do you know when she seems to get the promotion by any chance?
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