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Old August 29 2013, 05:04 AM   #189
Re: So many Mirandas/So few Constitution-refits?

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
blssdwlf wrote: View Post
When M-5 was neutralized, they were regaining control of the ship. They had about 1 minute but they were doing something to restore control. At the very minimum, they were forcing the shields to stay down and working on communications at the same time.
Which wouldn't have been an issue of M5 hadn't gone out of its way to sabotage the override system in the first place (and even re-route controls to prevent them from disconnecting it while it was still operational). Under normal circumstances, full vessel control would have been restored by the touch of a button.
But very comparable. M5's control sabotaged the override system but once disconnected, they were able to begin overriding the system. It's not that different from Scotty's automation system except that once it was disabled, there was no way for them to override it manually.

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
A "similar" ladderway doesn't mean it is not part of engineering.
None of those ladderways are IN engineering (e.g. the engine room, where the intermix/energizers are located). If he's even inside the secondary hull, he is at least one bulkhead/compartment removed from it.
Well these spaces were not in the engine room but were still part of engineering. The primary energy circuits, the main energizer, the service crawlway.

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
The panel is on the wall behind the ladder. We don't know if it's a feature of the tube itself or something the other engineer had installed there for some other reason.

For that matter, we don't even know if Scotty was working on the computer at the time Kirk called him. For all we know, he'd gone up to C-deck to repair an air leak while his two programming techs were finishing up the testing with the firmware upgrades.
Or he and his tech could be wiring up the automation from one system to another through these access points. Or that area is on another level of engineering.

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
Except in Wrath of Khan they had a full crew aboard (albiet with trainees) which would have included techs in the phaser room and in engineering to make sure those "few shots" were even available. With those rooms empty, they have no options; at full power they MIGHT have been able to charge the phasers remotely, but with the mains out and the computers damaged, that would have to have been done manually.
It's not much different than "The Doomsday Machine"? The ship was smashed and 4 guys were able to get the ship to function on manual controls. The only difference in TSFS is that they didn't try after Scotty's automation went dead suggesting no manual control was available once it went down.

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
No it isn't. It's only present on the saucer at the exact moment of impact and then doesn't appear again.
Well if it doesn't appear again it's not the point of impact and part of the sparking.

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
It partially did:

And I'll remind you that your original claim was that the shadow was being caused by the TORPEDO. It clearly isn't, and you can plainly see the glow from the impact's secondary effects partially wash out the pre-existing shadow. That means the impact point was noticeably farther forward from the impulse engines, at least halfway to the bridge if not closer.
And I'll remind you that the expanding blast is behind that hump in front of the impulse engine which has a shadow casting to the starboard side. If it was closer to the bridge it would be in front of the hump and not behind it.

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
You wouldn't take a training ship to teach cadets how to conduct away missions or surveys on planetary bodies. You use a training ship to teach them how to run the ship. If you want to practice surveying a planet, escaping/evading hostile aliens, surviving in harsh environments or moving around in zero gravity/EVAs, there are a thousand places in the solar system you can go, all accessible by shuttlecraft. Even starship operations can be partially simulated -- this, too, we have actually seen -- so the only reason they need a training vessel is to experience running a real-live starship actually in space, outside of the simulator.
So the only cadets that get any actual training on a real training ship is the bridge crew? The transporter crew, the maintenance crew that need to do EVAs and other non-ship crew are out of luck?

A live training ship would be training the cadets on doing what they're expected to do on a real ship. There would be no good reason to limit the ship to only a flying exercise.

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
One - Earth. And that's a good one since they have a known target to verify their sensor readings with and do training beam downs and exploration.
For which reason, they would not need a TRAINING SHIP.
Sure they would. To operate the sensors. Determine a beam down point. Transport down and back up. Practice, practice - from a real ship in orbit.

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
We know from TWOK she carried live torpedoes. After some safe simulator training on Earth, they went on board a training ship with the real weapons. There is no reason to believe that the Enterprise as a training ship or Enterprise-A as an active duty ship would go out without actual equipment.
That all depends on what the Enterprise-A was being used for. Unlike Excelsior, she was not seen being actively engaged in the "cataloging gaseous anomalies" missions, so it again goes to the question of what exactly the Enterprise-A was FOR. Training vessel or technology testbed or even Sol System Patrol Vessel are all possibilities, but each mission would imply a slightly different ship fitting.
I see two different issues here. The training ship Enterprise would have a standard but functional load of equipment since she had live torpedoes she would also have everything else working.

Since the Excelsior had the gear for the duration of Sulu's 3 year mission then the E-A carrying the same kind of gear would suggest that Starfleet was making that a standard load and/or the E-A was going to or already does patrol near the Klingons, IMHO.
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