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Old August 23 2013, 05:55 PM   #175
Crazy Eddie
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Re: So many Mirandas/So few Constitution-refits?

blssdwlf wrote: View Post
So you're saying that a "defensive action is something you do to prevent your OWN elimination" and you agree that "it doesn't EXCLUDE destroying the enemy." So why are you objecting to torpedoes used as defensive fire against an enemy ship as it doesn't contradict those parameters?
Because the nature of torpedo attacks -- particularly in World War-II -- means this is necessarily a counter-attack, which is a type of offensive action. This is such, because firing a torpedo at the enemy immediately forces HIM to go on a defensive footing and take measures to avoid getting killed by your torpedo, either by firing deck guns in an attempt to detonate that torpedo or (if it's too deep or doesn't leave a trail) by taking evasive action to avoid it.

Phasers have use as defensive weapons since they can be used to intercept enemy missiles and torpedoes and protect the ship itself. Photon torpedoes are primarily anti-ship weapons; you fire them, and the ENEMY has to go defensive if he wants to survive. If he doesn't want to survive, he might just ignore your torpedoes, take the hits on the chin, and immediately fire back without loosing the initiative.

Yes, and when it self-shutdown, they could run down to engineering to pull the connections and start restoring control of the ship. Scotty's automation didn't give them that option.
Pulling the plug on M5 wouldn't have given them control of the ship, it just guaranteed that M5 wouldn't "change its mind" and take control again. Kirk left himself open to attack on purpose, knowing that 1) he couldn't effectively fight back if he wanted to and 2) Commodore Wesley would probably spare the ship if he thought it was open to attack.

Thanks. So how can you tell that the ladder/crawlway he is in TSFS is not connected to Engineering or not related to some part of the Jefferies Tubes?
It probably IS the Jefferies Tube, or something similar to it. Either way, it's not actually part of the engine room; in the director's cut of TWOK we see Kirk and Saavik and Spock using a similar ladderway to climb between decks after leaving the transporter room because turbolifts are inoperative below C-deck.

Go to engineering and manually transfer power to the shields and weapons.
... would have been an option BEFORE the Klingons hit them with a photon torpedo. The first thing Kirk says after they get hit is "emergency power!" they're in almost the same shape they were in right after Khan's torpedo strike.

The Constellation in "The Doomsday Machine" was wrecked with significant damage but about 4-5 people were able to manually control the ship.
With a sizeable damage control team in engineering, helping Scotty get the impulse engines and secondary systems online and run the power systems. Kirk had helm control and probably guidance control of the phasers (we know they can be automatically locked onto the "navigational beam") and it's also likely Scotty had at least one of his damage control teams down in the phaser control room (the guy responsible for having it recharged?). That, after about an hour of repairs, was enough for the ship to move (barely) and to fire a single blast from one phaser bank.

Let's also Consider that if Constellation had been up against a Klingon warship -- even a damaged one like Kruge's bird of prey -- they would have blown him out of the water. As it stands, they only survived the wrath of the Doomsday machine because the machine was so easily distracted by the more maneuverable and more capable Enterprise; Constellation was perhaps two seconds away from getting vaporized when Decker distracted them.

Kirk might have been able to stall Kruge for a couple of minutes until his staff could run to engineering and try to get the power systems online, but that would only count for one last, suicidal gesture after which the Klingons would have blown him to bits. His "You have two minutes to surrender" was his hold card, and Kruge called his bluff.

If it was slightly aft of the bridge or a little to the starboard then why doesn't the shadow of the impulse housing reflect this? Instead the shadow is casting to the ship's starboard side which suggests the hit is to the port-side forward of the crystal housing.
Watch it in live action: the shadow is present both before and after the torpedo strike, and is therefore from an external light source (either Genesis itself or the central star in the system).

The light from the TORPEDO actually spills over the starboard side of the saucer -- no shading from the bridge module -- and partially washes out that shadow with the "secondary" explosions.

Given that there are several planets that the cadets can practice exploring in system, like Earth or experiments from orbit like Venus, Mars, Jupiter, etc
Missions to which would have been handled by Academy annexes at those locations, serving proving grounds that had been setup ahead of time so the cadets would have a safe place to train (as NASA basically does with its neutral buoyancy tanks and the terrain simulators from the old lunar missions).

More importantly, Starfleet officers seem to spend most of their time exploring Earthlike planets in shirtsleeve environments. How many Earthlike planets exist in the Sol system?

They would've called the Excelsior and have them fire the torpedo? But since they were carrying it and their mission was an escort mission then it stands to reason that the ship will normally carry scientific equipment. So the training ship would have carried scientific equipment along with her live torpedoes.
That would fit, IF Enterprise was being used as a training vessel in TUC. If it was being used as a technology testbed or something similar, then the analytic equipment would have been the prototype for the gear that was later fitted on the Excelsior.
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