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Old August 22 2013, 04:20 PM   #113
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Re: Oberth Class the missing link between Enterprise and Reliant

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
I still think the larger one fits better, if only because the smaller one doesn't make a lot of technical sense, ESPECIALLY if we assume the sensor pod underneath really is a huge sensor array like a lot of us have always assumed.
Yeah... I'm starting to agree. Reverend's 200 ballpark makes some sense, and still fits nicely with "mid-sized." I think I might work on a cross section with that in mind at some point.

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
This is turning into yet another episode of "But the MSD is really tiny!" which is a similar issue with the ever-rescaling USS Defiant: the entire design simply makes more sense as a much larger vessel, and the only evidence for a smaller size is a three-deck MSD. If you're willing to take the MSD as being not necessarily accurate (which the FIRST Defiant MSD already was) then it gives you more room to work out a more realistic range of sizes.

In the end, let's face it: unless the MSD was drawn by the guy who actually designed the ship -- and not farmed out to the art department after the fact -- it probably isn't going to be all that useful.
Wholly, wholly agreed. Especially on the second paragraph.

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
Or what we see on the conference lounge wall is, indeed, the Enterprise-C but Andrew Probert's concept to have this starship be a member of the Ambassador Class was overwritten and made erroneous.
Well, yes. I think this is one of those things you and I shall just have to agree to disagree on. I do philosophically agree with you, I guess I just am not as phased by it as you are. Would I have like to have seen the more complex Probert design realized? Of course. But to me, seeing the ship on the screen is something I just can't rationalize around, beyond the aforementioned contortive ways.

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
From a strictly "Thermian" point of view and knowing that there are many alternate realities and dimensions Tasha Yar's daughter Sela could have come from into the "true" TNG reality, what we saw in "Yesterday's Enterprise" was an alternate, grim TNG reality (somewhere between the "true" reality and that of the mirror universe) and the Enterprise-C didn't necessarily come from the "past" of the "true" reality but instead the "past" of the alternate reality featured in the episode with Guinan apparently being the only one with a transdimensional awareness of things).

Since the desciples of GUT do not like contradictions (neither do I), this could be a possible rationalization for the problem and one that neither suggests Mr. Probert was delusional, or betrays the original intention, and does not deprive the Star Trek universe of his design.
Hm. Acceptable but still a bit contortive. I still don't think the erroneous sculptor excuse is that bad. But what do you make of the other appearances of the design, as the Excalibur for example? Different class in the "real" timeline?

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
I see your desire to put the thread back on track, and salute your unwavering interest in the original topic.
Blame the OCD.

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
Yes, this was a suggestion for rationalization in the early part of this thread and because of the Klingon BoP precedent. While it's apparently not desirable it seems inevitable to me.

Heck, as a SW fan I've come to accept this crap for the imperial AT-AT walker (ESB vs. JEDI), the Super Star Destroyer (Executor vs. Palpatine's ship) and - of course - the Death Star (I vs. II).

Sometimes iconic items turn out larger than they first appeared.
True. I still think a happy medium for the Oberth at least is possible, if not desirous.

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
I did a Google picture search ("ST III Excelsior model") and several and different study model prototypes showed up (funny, each search yields different results), especially this one (with allusions to a 14th Federation design series).

Here, the main hull also sits on a slab, not too dissimilar from the one of the Oberth Class. What were these guys at ILM trying to suggest?
Those study models were pretty cool. I'm not sure if there was any suggestion meant to be taking place, as much as maybe the designers just working on two models that were supposed to have belonged to the same fleet, and exploring similar ideas?

Regarding primary hull separation, it does seem like it was a planned feature as far back as TOS, given Kirk's "crack out of there with the main section" remark in "The Apple." It would seem to be more of a desperation maneuver in that time versus a standard operating procedure later on... but who knows?

If as Robert suggests, once upon a time Starfleet primary hulls made planetfall as a part of operating procedure in lieu of transporters, perhaps older Starfleet ships separated as a matter of due course? Perhaps then, it has never been that difficult to separate the ship, but for a time it just wasn't something that was thought was useful, beyond catastrophic failures and such?
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." - Q
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