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Old August 22 2013, 02:59 AM   #260
Timewalker
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
I guess you missed "Journey to Babel", "Amok Time", "Yesteryear" and the entirety of Star Trek: Enterprise?

Name one full-blooded Vulcan that exemplifies IDIC. Even Sarek shunned his own son for eighteen years. Why? For daring to explore a little of that infinite diversity rather than stay on Vulcan.
Surak. After all, he's the guy who invented the concept.
Fair enough in theory, although our only glimpses of the man himself are a dream-images from Spock's and Captain Archer. After all, Gene Roddenberry started something great despite not exactly living up to it's ideals himself.
Sarek didn't shun Spock for wanting to associate with non-Vulcans or go off-planet. He shunned Spock because:

A. Spock refused to follow in Sarek's footsteps in the field of diplomacy.

B. Spock refused to settle for the Vulcan Science Academy. Sarek saw that as Spock rejecting his Vulcan heritage and Vulcan ways.

C. Spock chose Starfleet. Sarek's objections to Starfleet were because sooner or later, Spock would be ordered to kill. Vulcan is a pacifist culture, and has been since the time of Surak. Sarek saw Spock as going against that - not necessarily that he would go nuts and kill for the hell of it, but that he would have to kill, period.
So, MASSIVELY FAILING at IDIC, then.
How about actually putting yourself in Original Sarek's shoes and actually thinking about it, instead of throwing all-caps at me?

Vulcan is a society of tradition. Evidently it's traditional for sons to follow their fathers in their fathers' careers, or at least general area. Spock chose not to do that. Therefore, friction ensues.

Sarek was genuinely baffled at Spock's insistence that he didn't want to attend the Vulcan Science Academy. He couldn't figure out what Spock could learn off-planet that he couldn't learn at the Academy.

Sarek, like many Vulcans, opposes killing. They oppose it to the point that they oppose any sort of military careers for their offspring. Spock chose not only to not become a diplomat, he chose to attend an off-planet institution of higher education. The fact that it was Starfleet Academy - a place that mostly prepares its students for careers in the military - was the last straw. Like Tevye in Fiddler On the Roof, who gave in to his two older daughters who flouted tradition, he simply could not bring himself to give in the third time. As Tevye says," There is no other hand!"

I get the impression that Sarek wouldn't have shunned Spock for 18 years if the first one or two were the only ways that Spock defied his father. But Starfleet was the dealbreaker.

And I repeat: Sarek's wives were human. If he were an inflexible bigot, he wouldn't have married them.

DFScott wrote: View Post
If we really are to have a new timeline, then the story needs to sell the viewer on the new and improved characters. It cannot rely on the old value propositions from 40 years ago. It can't paint Kirk to be a boorish amateur and then expect us to say, well, he's Kirk, he'll get away with it, he always skirts past the rules, look at his track record. Not if the story also expects us to see Spock return a kiss on his own accord, when his track record tells us that couldn't happen.
The problem is that the nuTrek characters are basically fresh out of the Academy. They don't have a track record!
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