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Old August 20 2013, 04:32 PM   #170
Crazy Eddie
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Re: So many Mirandas/So few Constitution-refits?

blssdwlf wrote: View Post
The paragraph clearly states that the leader of the friendly forces is setting the conditions of the defense so his/her friendly forces...
Is not a general, and isn't the supreme commander of a massive coalition of multiple units.

More importantly, this is again in the context of military science and officer's training; that's how those terms are ACTUALLY USED. You want to split hairs in the text, go ahead and have fun with that, but that's now how those terms are used. "Friendlies" is used because the other forces you have to keep in mind may or may not actually be under your command and you have to act as part of a larger whole at all times.

The GOAL of a defensive action is to destroy or fix an enemy attack and gain the initiative to be able to go on the offense. Preserving the health and well-being of enemy forces isn't a requirement.
It's a question of maximum efficiency is all. Any action that most effectively defeats their attack meets the goals of defense. Given a choice between defeating your enemy and defeating his attack -- and this often IS a choice -- you make a tactical decision on which will allow you to complete your broader objective more effectively.

Note that a lot of times commanders choose to go on the offensive even when they are in the process of getting their asses kicked. The most famous example is the Battle of Samar, where the destroyers of Taffy 3 -- who had no viable defensive options anyway -- pretty much did a Banzai charge on a squadron of Japanese battleships. They basically got themselves massacred, but in the process they managed to turn back the Japanese fleet and make room for the landing operation to succeed.

A counterattack is still a defensive action
Not according to the source you linked to.

Again, if you want to split hairs and use terms incorrectly, that's your call. You tend to do that a lot just for argument's sake; whatever makes you happy.

He's not in the intermix/warp core area but that doesn't mean he is not in engineering.
Engineering -- also known as the "engine room" -- is a compartment that contains the intermix chamber and the main reactor below it, and also the power systems and machinery related to them.

During the "eight weeks" conversation, Scotty is not in the engine room, but is in fact in a ladderway that grants access between decks. It's possible he's CLOSE to engineering, but that's definitely not where he is.

Considering Scotty was pulled immediately off the Enterprise to go to the Excelsior after docking it is unlikely he had time to setup a separate automation system that was used in combat against the BOP.
Considering how flimsy that jury rigging turned out to be, how much time would he really need?

Scotty controlled the ship's warp drive with the automation system. Since he hooked practically every system up to it then it would've been through engineering where everything can be controlled. If it was merely a software issue then a reboot or manual override would have been an option.
You would think so, but you'd be wrong.
The source of the problem on the Yorktown was that bad data was fed into an application running on one of the 16 computers on the LAN. The data contained a zero where it shouldn't have, and when the software attempted to divide by zero, a buffer overrun occurred -- crashing the entire network and causing the ship to lose control of its propulsion system.
And Yorktown was disabled for a little over two hours before they were able to restore systems. Scotty may be a miracle worker, but I don't see him rebooting the entire automation system and rewriting the software in five seconds flat. Hell, I think that would be a tall order even for Data.

If they could have they surely would have.
If they could have run to deflector control and manually raised the shields, you mean? I DEFINITELY don't see Scotty pulling that off in five seconds.

Hang on. That probably would've been something Scotty and Co would have considered. Instead they acted as if there was nothing that could be done. Running down to engineering or any specific system wasn't even a consideration at any point.
Again: at what point in the battle with Kruge did they have any opportunity to do that? By the time they realize the shields aren't going up, the very next thing that happens is the bridge exploding all around them. At that point, it's too late: you can't MANUALLY run ship as sophisticated as the Enterprise with just six people, and with the automation center taken out, they're as helpless as the Yorktown.

What's really weird is that the shorting out happened 13 seconds after the torpedo hit.
Unless you think the automation center is physically connected to the helm console next to Scotty's wrist, I don't think this is the case. Kruge's torpedo did hit them a couple meters aft of the bridge, so it probably physically damaged the computer elements that were handling the automation altogether.

When Kirk gives the order to "stand by photon torpedoes" we see all the sliders with the labeling "TORP ENERGY LVL" being pulled down or already down to the bottom.
Which you are guessing -- based on nothing at all -- relates to their explosive yield

There is nothing obvious in the movie that the training vessel was not going to do any training exploration.
Other than the fact that they had no pre-set destination in mind and Spock tells Sulu "indulge yourself." As far as we can tell, they hadn't even left the solar system yet when Carol called him to complain.

Or the asteroid was the size of a small moon as the navigational deflectors of the TOS Enterprise could nudge a rock the size of the Earth's moon.
No they couldn't. In fact, they nearly burned out their engines trying it. And this for an asteroid whose orbit they needed to slightly deflect away from an impact trajectory eight months in the future; try moving one of those things out of your path at FTL velocities.

More importantly, Ilia mentions it as "unidentified small object has been pulled into the wormhole with us directly ahead." What is a "small object" in this context? Smaller than the Enterprise, larger than a shuttlecraft; definitely not "small moon."
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