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Old August 19 2013, 05:52 AM   #167
Re: So many Mirandas/So few Constitution-refits?

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
blssdwlf wrote: View Post
Watch it again.
I did. It's obvious they lost sight of Reliant... and that's about it, it seems. "Veered away" would be a course change or a turn and I don't think that actually happens (actually, it could be that Reliant was the one that veered away when the phaers grazed the port side).
It's obvious that the Enterprise was already turned away (you can see her in profile) as the Reliant fires her aft torpedo. Since Khan didn't order an evasive before he fired aft torpedoes then it had to be Enterprise to make the turn away.

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
It is important to set conditions of the defense so friendly forces can destroy or fix the enemy while preparing to seize the initiative and return to the offense.
Got that? You can destroy the enemy while defending yourself.
Incorrect. Look at the underlined portion there: "friendly forces" refers to somebody OTHER than yourself,
Those "friendly forces" are the troops under the reader's (leader's) command. The paragraph is addressed to leaders.
Though the outcome of decisive combat derives from offensive actions, leaders often find it is necessary, even advisable, to defend. The general task and purpose of all defensive operations is to defeat an enemy attack and gain the initiative for offensive operations. It is important to set conditions of the defense so friendly forces can destroy or fix the enemy while preparing to seize the initiative and return to the offense.
It is interesting that you find that defending cannot include the destruction or killing of enemy personnel or vehicles.

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
Combat units may change "stances" from offensive to defensive and back again many times on any given engagement.
Ship A attacks Ship B with guns. Ship B defends itself by firing back at Ship A with guns and sinks it. Soldier A is defending an entrance and comes under fire from Soldier B. Soldier A defends by returning fire at Soldier B, killing him. Defending can include destroying or killing the enemy.

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
What makes you think the problem was in engineering? They knocked out the automation center; that would imply a problem with the main computer or some portion thereof. Assuming Scotty even knew exactly where the problem was, it probably wouldn't be fixable in any reasonable amount of time.
Because Scotty tells Kirk that he's almost done automating the ship while in Engineering. Ship's computer systems were also in the engineering of Excelsior where Scotty pulled the chips so that would be a pretty likely location to address the problem. The photon torpedo hit was to the engine area of the saucer.

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
They wouldn't NEED an automation system with a full crew; as Scotty says, "A chimpanzee and two trainees could handle her."
If he had a full crew then the ship would've needed to uninstall the automation which would've meant additional time to repair the ship on top of whatever repairs that were not completed prior to reaching starbase. If he left with only the automation it was clear from Scotty's dialogue that it was not meant for combat or high stress which indicated it wasn't ready for active duty. In either case, not all the battle damage had been repaired prior to reaching starbase and she needed repairs before going back into active service.

(This is in response to your statement as to what Scotty was planning to do with those two weeks: Crazie Eddie wrote, "Kirk mentions in his log entry "most of our battle damage repaired, we're almost home." More to the point, Enterprise WAS able to fly back to Genesis again without any repairs whatsoever, so what the hell was Scotty planning to do with those two weeks?")

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
Kirk says nothing about a combat mission; in the torpedo room:
I said Morrow stated this.
KIRK: As surely as if it were my very own!
Give me back the Enterprise! With Scotty's help I could...
MORROW: No, Jim! The Enterprise would never stand the pounding and you know it.
Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
Again, the system never "shorted out."
Right after the torpedo hit on the impulse engine of the Enterprise.
KIRK: What happened?
Panels short out around Scotty/helm area and then he answers:
SCOTT: They've knocked out the automation center. I've got no control over anything!
The hit on the impulse engine area shorted out the automation that was already overloaded from the combat stress ("I didn't expect to take us into combat, ya know!").

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
There's very little to suggest a training ship CAN blow up a city with a live torpedo, especially considering we've never seen torpedoes actually DO this (hell, two of them were barely sufficient to destroy the unshielded Reliant).
They were suppose to be low power as we saw the torpedoes set to low power prior to them firing on the Reliant. The only instance in the TOS movies where we saw a full powered photon torpedo fire was in TMP when it spectacularly destroyed an asteroid in the wormhole with them. Your argument is that a training ship would have dummy equipment yet the evidence shows that they had live torpedoes and phasers and no indication of deficient sensor capability or lack of science and exploration gear.

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
It it had been URGENT, Kirk never would have gone home at all, he would have just stayed at Genesis and explored it himself.
Again, we don't know why he wanted to go back to Genesis in the beginning. Grissom was already surveying the planet. For all we know it could be to visit his son and spend quality time with him.

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
In the original script, it had everything to do with Spock and his Katra since McCoy started acting weird before they even left Genesis and they figured out what was happening on their own. In the filmed version, it probably has more to do with Kirk wanting to follow up on the Genesis situation, considering the enormity of what the planet represents to him personally.
Or he might have just wanted to hang around with his son and was instead ordered back to Starbase?
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