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Old August 15 2013, 05:34 PM   #13
Guy Gardener
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Re: common misconceptions about Voyager

KaraBear wrote: View Post
Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Off the cuff?

(Breaking the Prime Directive means that you are altering the balance of power or altering the development/evolution of a species by giving them information or technology which they are not ready for... Agreed?)
in a prewarp civilization yes, in a warp capable species it's not as cut and dry
You say that prototype is a Prime Directive Episode. Janeway bleats that B'Elanna is in danger of breaking the Prime Directive and she'd best back the frakk up.

You'll notice that the alien robots in question who B'Elanna was in danger or breaching the Prime Directive Rights of, despite their procreative limitations possessed a greater military technology than Starfleet and was kicking Voyager's ass?

KaraBear wrote: View Post

The Next Emanation. Kim is screaming as loud as he can "Your religion is stupid and make believe and you should quit it!" And that was to a prewarp civilization who thought he was a god.
if by screaming as loud as he could you mean quietly discussing it with one guy who didn't want to go through with the death anyway
His voice carries.

There was zero censorship.

KaraBear wrote: View Post

The Ferengi are the ones who would have broken the prime directive by taking advantage of the aliens. Janeway was trying to remove them from the planet in a way that was consistent with the alien culture
The Ferengi are not bound to Federation laws unless they are in Federation space.

Look at the script.

Janeway said "you are right, and I am wrong. Sorry, you may return to the planet to molest those aliens all you like. Sorry for inconveniencing you. Goodbye."

And then she spends the next 20 minutes trying to screw the ferengi for screwing her by outloopholing the Prime Directive more deviously than they did... She used the Prime Directive like a balloon in the hands of a drunk clown.

KaraBear wrote: View Post

He took it upon himself to study the transporter and had come up with a way to use them before he mentioned anything to janeway, he showed her the modificatins he thought would need to be made to get a samle of the cloud on Rinax. Janeway had B'elanna make the temorary modifications he sugested.
And now he can make transporters.

The doctor should have fried his brain and removed the last week of memories.

KaraBear wrote: View Post

where is the prime directive broken here?
It wasn't. This is one of the few times that Janeway is awsome and respects the Prime Directive. It gave me hope for what the next 5 years might have been.

KaraBear wrote: View Post
come on now she had no intention of going after the cavemen. They needed weapons to hunt for food and for self defense
Just to remind you of the timeline... They broke into her camp and stole Kes.

As far as Kathryn knew, Kes was being spit roasted over an open flame.

Yes, they were literally making spears, and the natives had exacted an act of war.

If Chakotay hadn't rescued that alien princess from a lava flow, Janeway would have been forced to kill them all to shut her pride up.

KaraBear wrote: View Post

The swarm aliens attack first, they fire on Paris and Torres in the shuttle, and they were essentially cloaked while going through their space so they wouldn't interfere
The Swarm gave a warning shot.

That was the polite thing to do.

How do you think the Federation treats cloaked Romulan ships sneaking though their back yard?

Essentially cloaked or not.

Besides that just means that they "essentially" broken the treaty of Algernon.

KaraBear wrote: View Post

they DIDN'T break any laws, they were framed by a terrorist group
Breaking laws has nothing to with being convicted of a crime.

KaraBear wrote: View Post
simply existing doesn't break the prime directive, this one is a serious reach
Asking not to be killed?

Politely asking not to be killed while completely at the mercy of the Voth?

Imagine you asked your government if you might not have to pay your taxes because you're lovely?

The politically inconvenient have a habit of disappearing.

I was surprised that the Voth had not sacked Earth before Voyager got home.

That would have been a fine turn of events.

KaraBear wrote: View Post

This episode doesn't count at all since the prime directive is rescinded
They're in space but they still obey the laways of gravity.

It's practically perverse how they don't float about.
KaraBear wrote: View Post

they had alraedy encountered human dna before janeway agreed to let the crew be copied
How do you calm a shitstorm down?

Add more shit?

Every human mind added to that species expanding it's identity massively.

The correct thing to do was to take the fake Harry and fake Tom with them, or kill them, or wipe their memories.

The other trillion trillion tons of quicksilver biomatter was perfectly happy and content with their/it's inert life.

Suddenly human beings are forcibly forced on them forcedly without their consent or permission... It's that thing you don't like me to talk about again.

When door knockers try to tell you about an awesome religion that will open your life up to a bright new world, isn't your first thought "go fuck yourself"?

Oh, and is it just me but every couple months does some bugger knock on your door from a different power company asking you to look at their competitive rates and sign up with them.

What right did fake Harry and fake Tom have to evolve their species?

I mean if I thought Heroin was awesome, and that you would enjoy heroin, and I didn't trust you to make up your own mind, would you thank me after I sprinkled it on your cornflakes?

KaraBear wrote: View Post

How did she give slip stream technlogy when they didn't have that technlogy?
It was %99 of Slipstream tech.

Some one cracks it and them slipstream torpedoes are fired from one planet to another light years apart in seconds through shields.

%1 shy of the intergalactic war!

KaraBear wrote: View Post
this one could be a breach, but it was Seven who did it, not janeway
Janeway didn't train Seven not to be an idiot, that's an oversight, and I clearly suggested that it was a mess Janeway could have easily clean up in the first act by putting the guy back to sleep or killing him.

KaraBear wrote: View Post

she repaired the machine so people in the future WOULDN'T go through what they did.
The machine itself wasn't that broken. It was the warning buoy which explained what was about to happen, which was missing/broken. Janeway recharged the batteries and launched a new warning buoy.

This is Caretaker all over again. She couldn't trust a timer to detonate a torpedo 10 seconds after the array threw her home again to blow up the array, but she can trust the buoy and the memorial to not start molesting passers by again for the next ten thousand years?

She shouldn't have fixed it, and she shouldn't have destroyed it, either would have altered the balance of power. She should have just let it burn itself out.

KaraBear wrote: View Post

Flesh and Blood. Janeway gave away advanced technology that the hirogen used to save their species from extinction, by creating a slave race they could torture communally who were too powerful and threatened to destroy the Hirogen quicklier than the first extinction which they feared which put Janeway into the position that she felt compelled to act genocidally and destroy all the hirogenmade Holograms. This is about Janeway having children again if you didn't notice.
The hirogen were not on the verge of extinction. When they took over voyager they had already examined and picked apart every system on voyager, they would have taken the holodec technology anyway
Voyager was turned into a holodeck because the Horgen no longer formed communities. They hunted, that's it. No planets, no space stations, no cites, no fleets, no nothing or dwindling closer to nothing with each generation. What was left unsaid is that because they didn't form communities, that their birth rates would have been for shit. but before they died out as a species they would have died out as a culture first since they don't commune.

KaraBear wrote: View Post

Friendship One... They fixed a biosphere on a planet full of assholes who killed Joe. They were stupid enough to destroy their biosphere once, so they'll do it again, Janeway broke the Prime Directive prolonging their death rattle just because she felt responsible since humans handed them the technology that destroyed their biosphere and they were too fricking weak to say "no".
she was following a direct order from starfleet
The very definition of an illegal order.

Was the order to get the probe or save the planet the probe fucked up?
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