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Old August 14 2013, 10:18 AM   #38
Robert Comsol
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Location: USS Berlin
Re: Oberth Class the missing link between Enterprise and Reliant

Unicron wrote: View Post
One could argue that it [JRS] only works well with the consideration of certain sources and not others. One reason I'm more in favor of a batch system versus JRS is that his scheme doesn't seem overly balanced to me. The heavy cruiser series is 1700+, but it's the 17th cruiser that's been built in the course of, say, a century or two of the Federation being founded (perhaps more)? That seems like a lot of cruisers while only a handful of scouts and destroyers have been built in the same time frame.
I don't know how we can reliably conclude the actual amount of scouts and destroyers built from the number of Federation cruiser design series? TMoST suggests large numbers, IMHO. The starships go first, then the "others" follow.

I should also mention, that I try not to let preference influence my treknological work efforts. Onscreen information is Canon # 1 to me, actual production background information Canon # 2, both of those are the "essentials" and not "up for grabs" unless these essentials have been accurately evaluated and considered.

Unicron wrote: View Post
Besides, if you wanted to include a source like the FJ Technical Manual, how would you account for his sequential system versus the class-ship style of the JRS?.
I should have been more precise. Matt Jefferies created the Enterprise and participated in the actual production of TOS, Franz Joseph didn't. For me, this makes JRS authentic and genuine while the FJ system is conjectural (but I have to acknowledge its post-TOS and -TAS influence and felt it necessary to reflect this "school of thought").

Of course, to assume that the last two (of four) registry digits refer to a sequential building order of a vessel from this design series (a changed premise deviating from Jefferies original concept but apparently continued by Franz Joseph) had become obsolete or debatable by the starship status chart featured in "Court-Martial" as "1697" would otherwise indicate 97 starships of the 16th design.
As in the case of "..64" I believe it's a contact code issued based on availability (and taken from a "deceased" starship).

Unicron wrote: View Post
For my part, I choose to ignore the Constitution registries that were given 1600 numbers because I don't think they fit, and I prefer the consistent 1700 scheme FJ used. The only exception I keep is the Defiant which had an odd registry, even though the FJ registry (1710) fits perfectly and is an easy alternative to 1701.
I'd prefer the 1701+ "Enterprise Class" scheme Matt Jefferies established but since retroactive (fan) continuity insists that we are dealing with "Constitution Class" I'm totally ok with the "16" numbers because and according to TOS-R this has to be the Constitution Class (but please let's not derail this thread, we have discussed this abundantly in other threads and should continue it there, if necessary).

Unicron wrote: View Post
I'd personally disagree with the Valiant being an Oberth myself, as I'm inclined to agree with Dukhat's comments earlier. I honestly think the name is just a coincidence.
But that's quite some coincidence to chose this name out of a hundred or a thousand alternate names, isn't it?


Praetor brought up the hazardous nature of the (TOS) warp engines Jefferies deliberately designed away for the ship, apparently as a possibility to easily jettison these in case of danger.

Of course, like the Oberth Class, the warp nacelles of the Miranda Class equally seem to be to too close for comfort. But then, what's the "hazardous element" of the old TOS warp nacelles?

The warp field coils, the matter-antimatter reactors or the antimatter confinement pods?

I think it's the antimatter confinement (confinement failure = you are dead) and in case of Reliant it's probably stored in the roll-bar pod (and can instantly fuel photon torpedos). The antimatter storage volume of the pod equals that of the TMP Enterprise (it has to be stored somewhere aboard Reliant).

Why we didn't get a bigger blast in ST II when Reliant's pod was destroyed I don't know (at least the remaining torpedos should have created quite some firework ). Apparently both torpedos and antimatter fuel may have been depleted at this time (but Enterprise was unaware of it).

"The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth" Jean-Luc Picard
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
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