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Old August 9 2013, 05:22 PM   #96
Crazy Eddie
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Re: So many Mirandas/So few Constitution-refits?

blssdwlf wrote: View Post
However, TOS did rip off "Enemy Below" and alternated between gun and torpedo with specific constraints that did not emulate 1960's contemporary naval combat.
They did, actually. Through the 1960s, guided missiles were unreliable enough that gunfire was still used in close quarters against surface and shore targets almost exclusively. Antiship missiles were available, but expensive and difficult to use, and beam-riding missiles like Tartar and Terrier could be used against surface targets only with a direct line of sight (basically, just outside gun range).

Which means guided missile cruisers of the early/mid 1960s operated the same way as starships: guns at close range, missiles at longer range. This is very much UNLIKE the WW-II analogy, where guns are used at medium range and torpedoes -- which are one-shot kills for anything smaller than a heavy cruiser -- are used at suicidally close range.

U-85 fires stern tube in attempt to sink pursuing destroyer...
And is sunk for her troubles. Desperation tactic is desperate.

USS Tang fires stern torpedoes at pursuing tanker and transport attempting to ram it.
Because they cannot dive to escape like they're supposed to. Desperation tactic is still desperate.

Netherlands O-21 sinks pursuing U-95 with stern torpedoes.
U-95 had been closely following O-21, trying to figure out who they were; O-21 shot the torpedoes at them as soon as they made challenge.

Not a desperation tactic, but part of the pattern that submarines only use the stern tubes "defensively" (if you can call it that) when on the surface. And a submarine that can't dive is a submarine that's just BEGGING to get sunk.

Spadefish failed to sink destroyer with stern torpedoes.
Only because her forward tubes were empty.

Much more to the point: this is not what the stern tubes were INTENDED for, nor was such use either common or particularly successful.

And again, by the 1980s the stern missile launchers on guided missile warships were supplemental on a ship that basically aims its main weapons by turning itself until said weapon is pointed in the general direction of the enemy.

I was thinking of TOS Enterprise's 6 forward tubes that could be emptied rapidly although still "one at a time". The only different I can tell between the TOS and TMP launchers is that we see the TMP ones fire multiple times indicating either a quicker reloading or holding multiple torpedoes to fire beyond the oval hatch where they are loaded. In either case, more tubes facing forward just means more torpedoes to be fired forward (without having to wait for the ones fired aft to swing around.)
But if the forward tube has some kind of autoloader or a quick-launch magazine, it doesn't matter whether you have one tube or twelve, you still launch all twelve torpedoes one at a time until your target dies.

Think of it like the Mk-26 launchers on the old Tico cruisers. Load two missiles, fire them off, reload, repeat. There's no real advantage to moving the other Mk-26 to the forward section of the ship (like they did on the Long Beach) because 90% of the time the ship is only going to fire one or two missiles and rarely needs more than that to get the job done. The VLS system we use now has the advantage of enabling a possible Macross Missile Massacre, but can just as easily fire missiles one or two at a time, and can do either job with identical efficiency.

The only disadvantage to the VLS system is that it cannot be easily reloaded. The NuEnterprise clearly doesn't have this problem.

Unfortunately Trek never kept up with the times, even their own, IMHO. Even AbramsTrek doesn't really make a change as it still keeps phasers and torpedoes.
OUR ships still have 5" guns, do they not? And again, the broadside launchers in STID would count as a timeline update to the design IMO.

ETA: Thought back to this thread and suddenly this image popped into my head:
The Complete Illustrated Guide to Starfleet - Online Now!

Last edited by Crazy Eddie; August 9 2013 at 06:02 PM.
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