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Old August 2 2013, 04:08 PM   #120
Darkwing
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Location: This dry land thing is too wierd!
Re: Marines and Combat Personel?

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
Darkwing wrote: View Post
Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
That could work. Picard may be thinking that Starfleet is an organization that INCLUDES military personnel among its crews (again, as we saw them do with Colonel Kira) but that the military contingent of Starfleet (still the Goldshirts?) are not calling the shots.
I have to wonder how someone gets that high without realizing that his military rank and responsibility means he is, ipso facto, a military officer.
Which brings us back to the overall point: maybe he isn't?
I can't see that. With the level of weaponry and the authority he wields, the fact that his ship's presence in sovereign borders is an act of war, I can't see a government not wanting the leash of a military chain of command.

Again, there's the Earth Cargo Service from the 22nd century and the Merchant Marine alluded to in "The Ultimate Computer" from which Geologist Carstairs was recruited. Scotty is implied to have worked on a cargo ship in Deneva before joining Starfleet. So those would be civilian space services who contribute members to Starfleet; this being TOS, it's doubtful that either of them attended (or needed to attend) Starfleet Academy.
I don't know this ECS. Merchant Marine would make sense; today they have reserve rank, so calling them up is a quickie military familiarity course based on an abbreviated OCS.

That puts military OFFICERS in charge. NASA remains a non-military organization even if its space shuttles are flown by air force officers and conduct classified DoD missions.
A far cry from going to war or patrolling borders.

True, but then TOS also breaks the continuity from First Contact where Zephram Cochrane is said to have invented the space warp that everyone uses (which would explain why Earth is such a big deal on the galactic stage these days). It's never suggested that he was the guy whose warp drive experiments paved the way for first contact, which is arguably a more important contribution to history than his discovery of an engine system that everyone else in the galaxy already has.
That's kind of the other way around. TOS established that Cochrane, who was from Alpha Centauri, invented warp drive shortly after Terra made first contact with A Cent. FC retconned that. TOS' version enfolds the discovery and first contact; FC rewrites the whole story.

Another point of contention for the TNG/TOS divorce lawyers.
I suppose so, especially FC.

"This summer construction work is getting ridiculous."
Access blocked to that site.

My impression is that Section 31 is and has always been a faction within Starfleet.
My impression was that Section 31 was retconned in as a faction within the UFP government, with access to Starfleet, based on Section 31 of the founding charter of the UFP - kind of like a totally black Secret Service / FBI / CIA hybrid with links into DARPA, DOD, and other agencies. Our version might be called 2A, if someone construed in 1794 that the federal government needed it's own private militia off-the-books, for those times the politicians can't fix things and/or need plausible deniability. Over time it grew into this overall entity.

I think they're useless against STARSHIPS, to be sure, which would explain why we never see them used in that capacity except in desperation, and then only with crazy aggressive swarm tactics.
The Dominion weren't desperate; that scene was supposed to show that they were so superior that their fighters alone wiped out the Odyssey task force. The Maquis were supposed to be desperate, but they were based on the Parisian resistance. We really only saw fighters as what they should be when the Domninion had them, and then switched focus to larger but fewer small craft fighting, because that was easier and cheaper for special effects.

But is also more likely TO be lost, since such a craft cannot stop and make repairs if it's damaged or malfunctions. Runabouts and special shuttles can, which takes out the fighter's advantage for recon; bird of preys with their cloaking devices and heavy weapons can and do carry out the precision strike missions and "sink the bismark!" type missions.
The BoP was also referred to as a fighter in some materials in the late 80's/early 90's, but that doesn't jive with the usual concept. Runabouts and shuttles don't have much more self-repair capacity than a fighter craft.

So the only role left for the Trek fighter, really, is close air support. Standard shuttles can do that too, but if that's ALL you need it to do you probably don't need space for passengers or cargo, nor do you really need a warp engine. If you're using the fighter/gunship to transport troops and equipment, on the other hand, then you've basically warp capable AC-130, which would explain where the Maquis got most of their ships.
This isn't Traveller. Warp drive is potentially useful in combat, unlike hyperdrive, which is parasitic mass in a fight. If nothing else, the Picard Maneuver to generate a false image, using relativity, and dodging torpedoes by jumping to/from warp.

Interesting question: assuming the Maquis didn't build them from scratch (I somehow doubt they did) from which branch of what Federation service did the Maquis get their spacecraft?
IIRC, the DS9 TM said something about them being old Starfleet fightercraft.
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