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Old August 1 2013, 10:36 PM   #119
Crazy Eddie
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Re: Marines and Combat Personel?

Darkwing wrote: View Post
Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
That could work. Picard may be thinking that Starfleet is an organization that INCLUDES military personnel among its crews (again, as we saw them do with Colonel Kira) but that the military contingent of Starfleet (still the Goldshirts?) are not calling the shots.
I have to wonder how someone gets that high without realizing that his military rank and responsibility means he is, ipso facto, a military officer.
Which brings us back to the overall point: maybe he isn't?

don't think it was an actual merger. I think they're simply transferring people around from one service to another (and maybe back again) on a regular basis and the uniform colors reflect what service each one originally comes from. In the same sense each ship has its own separate insignia, each branch of the service -- civilian astronaut corps, science corps, military officer's corps -- would have their own colors.
What other services? UESPA was only mentioned ina few TOS eps, and nothing else really comes to mind in TNG.
Again, there's the Earth Cargo Service from the 22nd century and the Merchant Marine alluded to in "The Ultimate Computer" from which Geologist Carstairs was recruited. Scotty is implied to have worked on a cargo ship in Deneva before joining Starfleet. So those would be civilian space services who contribute members to Starfleet; this being TOS, it's doubtful that either of them attended (or needed to attend) Starfleet Academy.

Personally, I find it easier to just assume they're all Starfleet, and let it go at that. But remember in TOS gold shirts were command, so in your scheme, that's still putting the military in charge.
That puts military OFFICERS in charge. NASA remains a non-military organization even if its space shuttles are flown by air force officers and conduct classified DoD missions.

Eh, just more of the continuity issues with ENT/TOS. Kirk didn't have a holodeck, and this would indicate he should have. Much easier to assume ENT leads to nu-Trek, and not to TOS.
True, but then TOS also breaks the continuity from First Contact where Zephram Cochrane is said to have invented the space warp that everyone uses (which would explain why Earth is such a big deal on the galactic stage these days). It's never suggested that he was the guy whose warp drive experiments paved the way for first contact, which is arguably a more important contribution to history than his discovery of an engine system that everyone else in the galaxy already has.

Another point of contention for the TNG/TOS divorce lawyers.

Really? Nobody's gonna notice all the snowbirds going up in smoke and a canal where the retirement home used to be?
"This summer construction work is getting ridiculous."

Starfleet doesn't like to kidnap or assassinate; that's stepping on Section 31's toes.
My impression is that Section 31 is and has always been a faction within Starfleet.

Your philosophy, not mine. Nothing in canon demonstrates unequivocally that fighters are useless - in fact they did show that they existed they just never used them because it'd be hard to handle the special effects.
I think they're useless against STARSHIPS, to be sure, which would explain why we never see them used in that capacity except in desperation, and then only with crazy aggressive swarm tactics.

A 1- or 2-man fighter costs less, and causes less casualty if lost in combat than a Defiant or BoP.
But is also more likely TO be lost, since such a craft cannot stop and make repairs if it's damaged or malfunctions. Runabouts and special shuttles can, which takes out the fighter's advantage for recon; bird of preys with their cloaking devices and heavy weapons can and do carry out the precision strike missions and "sink the bismark!" type missions.

So the only role left for the Trek fighter, really, is close air support. Standard shuttles can do that too, but if that's ALL you need it to do you probably don't need space for passengers or cargo, nor do you really need a warp engine. If you're using the fighter/gunship to transport troops and equipment, on the other hand, then you've basically warp capable AC-130, which would explain where the Maquis got most of their ships.

Interesting question: assuming the Maquis didn't build them from scratch (I somehow doubt they did) from which branch of what Federation service did the Maquis get their spacecraft?
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