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Old July 31 2013, 05:07 PM   #84
Re: Dreadnought-Class Production Line (Spoilers?)

Set Harth wrote: View Post
We see that multiple starships were destroyed by other means.
That's exactly what we do not see - there is no scene showing any other means of destroying multiple starships.

I think you mean: if it fires all its missiles at a Jellyfish and then some other ship that wasn't even targeted shoots them down, a Jellyfish can avoid being destroyed. But that hardly describes the general case of a battle with modern starships. The Enterprise wasn't being targeted in that scene, and we don't know how long it takes the ship to make new missiles.
We saw exactly what "everything" means, after maximum reload time - it's twenty missiles. And against nine starships, it means plenty of "ships not targeted" that can defend the targeted ships.

It certainly gets a reaction from me. Why were Klingon ships next door to Earth?
Why not? Klingons are supposedly Earth's worst if not oldest nemesis; it stands to reason their territory would be very close, threateningly so.

Because the fleet doesn't have a mandate for an unprovoked invasion of Klingon space?
Starfleet didn't send Kirk to Klingon space to stop V'Ger, or a fleet of forty ships to Jouret to stop the Borg. Sending ships to a location between the threat and Earth is a sensible move, because that cuts down on travel time; Laurentius is probably the strategically obvious place to mount a defense against a threat from that Klingon prison system, and sufficiently far away from Vulcan and Earth to suit Nero's needs, which is why he chose that prison system as the centerpoint of his ruse.

That sounds like an argument for sending a lot of ships to Vulcan, a Federation world, not Klingon space.
By going to Vulcan, you can only defend Vulcan (which probably isn't even among the obvious targets for the threat Nero led Starfleet to prepare against). By going closer, you can defend the Federation. That's how goalkeeping works.

Which brings us back to Nero being coy about what's happening at Vulcan for no apparent reason, and inconsistency.
How is Nero being "coy"?

Nero has every reason to alert Starfleet to a nonexistent danger nowhere near Vulcan first, and then to alert the remaining elements of Starfleet to an equally nonexistent threat at Vulcan. That's how he gets to destroy his enemy in detail, and to proceed with the real threat.

Completely different. All that got sucked into the black hole and went away
Apparently not - it was just hovering there until Kirk fired at it.

unlike at Vulcan where the wreckage ( which looked conspicuously like the remains of ships blown to pieces by missiles ) just floated around for the Enterprise to run into.
Interestingly, those ships must have been falling towards Vulcan rather than floating. After all, they were stationary wrt to the Narada, which was stationary wrt Vulcan due to the drill, but not high enough to be on a geostationary (hephaistostationary?) orbit.

No way of really telling what cut those saucers in half; nothing of the sort happened to any of the ships we saw being hit by Nero's missiles.

Also, a big deal is made of using some of the red matter at Vulcan because they hadn't done that yet.
Not in the movie we are discussing.

So the other ships were constantly sending messages to Nero, but the Enterprise was not also constantly sending messages to Nero?
Sending those messages would be the job of the Truman, obviously - no need for more than one starship to clog the channels. Pike's comm officer hailed that lead ship, but this channel need not have been accessible to Nero.

Besides, we know Nero was surprised by the arrival of the Enterprise, from dialogue. But we also know he was not surprised by the approach of the relief fleet, from dialogue. ("Seven ships are on their way" vs. "Sir, there's another Federation ship!")

Only the Rura Penthe scenes were dropped. The idea of the Narada destroying modern starships with missiles was not rejected.
No need to write a memo about it; it's still the de facto result.

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote