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Old July 29 2013, 10:54 PM   #67
Set Harth
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Location: Angmar
Re: Dreadnought-Class Production Line (Spoilers?)

Timo wrote: View Post
But it is the content of the film.
No. "Nero destroys starships using red matter" is not the content of the film.

Timo wrote:
No, when it is engaged in a desperate battle with a midget spacecraft a few seconds before the red matter detonation.
But you said it could offer no resistance to the Enterprise. Now it sounds like you're talking about the Jellyfish, which only gets close enough to ram Nero due to the Enterprise shooting down the missiles targeting it. We were told outright what would happen if several missiles hit the Enterprise.

Timo wrote:
Clearly, the mining rig is incapable of coping with most opponents in a "fair fight"
Most opponents don't try to suicidally crash into it ( and as we've seen, even that doesn't destroy it, unless the kamikaze ship is equipped with red matter ). Besides, what counts as a "fair fight"?

Timo wrote:
But he can lie to Starfleet about a really big threat somewhere far away
A threat in Klingon space, that they don't exactly have a mandate to go traipsing around in? That they wouldn't be expected to do anything about? How does that in any way affect the Federation response at Vulcan, other than in needlessly running the risk that someone figures out the Vulcan situation is a trap?

Timo wrote:
That is, unless the carnage was achieved by dropping some red matter on their path
It doesn't look like it. That appears to be a bunch of ships shot up by missiles, not a bunch of ships sucked into a red matter black hole. When Vulcan was destroyed, or when the Narada was destroyed, they didn't leave "carnage" behind.

Timo wrote:
a move that doesn't work with surprise arrivals such as the delayed Enterprise.
Enterprise is really no more of a surprise arrival than the other ships, unless you think Nero can somehow precisely calculate Starfleet response time.

Timo wrote:
Not just because of that
In the script, as opposed to the final version of the film, the timeline is different. The message about the Rura Penthe battle comes first, then the "lightning storm" of Spock's emergence. This shows that from the POV of the script the Narada was intended to be strong enough to destroy a Klingon armada without the red matter, and IMO it seems dubious to assume that the ship was rendered incapable of doing so just because the Rura Penthe scenes were deleted.
Just walk away, and there will be an end to the horror.
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