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Old July 26 2013, 02:19 AM   #34
Re: Cause and Effect - why didn't they...

Timo wrote: View Post
Remember that our heroes already know they are caught in a repeating loop - a loop that apparently has already repeated itself multiple times. Turning back is an obvious idea, but it has done them no good in the supposed previous attempts!
But the first time through they made no attempt, because they didn't know they were going to be destroyed. Thus they would not have turned back. Remember - the only knowledge they could get about what was going to happen came from previous trips through the loop. The first time through, there had been no previous attempts, so the logic, "Reversing course didn't help last time" is wrong. There was no last time.

It's not as if our heroes would know that the time loop is the result of the ship being in spot X at time T. In other words, there's no guarantee that avoiding spot X would keep the ship out of the loop. Perhaps it's more a matter of the ship doing activity Y at time T? Or doing activity Y at any random time? Or not being in spot X at time T?
True, but there's no reason to assume that it wouldn't be because of that either. So it makes sense to act as though the ship's location plays a part in causing it, even if they can't know for sure.

The "they knew nothing during their first time around" argument is not a helpful one, because any number of exotic things could have happened during their first time around already. Nothing necessitates an "uneventful" original run where the only event is the ship crashing into a time loop, or makes this more or less likely than an "eventful" run where all sorts of things happen and just one of those is responsible for the loop.
But, however, the first time through they would have done nothing until they experienced an event which would give them cause to do that thing. By doing something at random, with no cause, they are changing the sequence of events and that could be what prevents the loop from forming.

In general terms, yes, it may make sense to "struggle" as much as possible, to turn around, to separate the ship, to sing "Allamaraine, allamaraine!" while standing on one's head... But "strugging" is exceptional, and time loops are exceptional, so there's the very real danger that the two are actually connected.

Timo Saloniemi
I see this as contradicting the episode. You are, in effect, claiming that struggling to avoid the collision by turning around could cause the collision, yet the episode shows very clearly that not turning around leads to the collision anyway. The worst case situation is that the Enterprise collides with the Bozeman no matter what. But the best case situation is that the Enterprise escapes the collision. Since we know from the episode that not turning around leads to the collision, trying to avoid it by turning around makes sense, yes?
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