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Old July 25 2013, 07:02 PM   #469
kirk55555
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Re: "Beware the Batman" in 2013! New Animated Series

sojourner wrote: View Post
You guys realize this is Kirk55555's whole shtick? He hates Nolan Batman, he hates MOS, he hates anything that deviates from his own personally conceived notions of what a character should be. It's almost pathological. Hell, there might be the basis for a good Batman villain in there somewhere.

A shtick would mean I'm pretending to hate the stuff, I'm not. Also, I resent the implication that I hate Nolan's stuff because its new or not like my Batman. I hate it because the movies just suck. They feel like they take all day to finish, Christian Bale is a horrible actor and the stories go from boring me to death to just straight up making me angry with poor writing. Also, I still haven't seen MoS. While everything i've heard and read makes me almost certain that I'll hate it (since I hated the Nolan batman m ovies and this seems to be Nolan's batman with superpowers and a williness to cross a line even bale wouldn't) I still have some hope that maybe, somehow, I won't hate it when I see it on DVD. Its a slim hope, but mybe it will turn out better regardless of its really stupid stuff. Its unlikely, but I just weanted to say that I haven't given up all hope that it might be ok, so hate is a bit too strong of a word at this time. Its likely that it will be accurate, but I'm not there yet.


As for new stuff, Batman: Brave and the Bold won me over instantly. So did Teen Titans back in the day, even though it was a weird show to see after getting used to the DCAU cartoons like B:TAS and Justice League. I can easily accept different takes on things, if they're done well. B&TB and Teen Titans were done well, and their differences made them unique and interesting. Even The Batman eventually became enjoyable.

[QUOTE=Professor Zoom;8425381]
kirk55555 wrote: View Post

I really don't get the comparison to B:TAS. I mean, its a show with Batman in the title, and its not goofy silver age style fun like B&TB or anything, but thats pretty much the end of the comparison. The Batman is more like B:TAS than BTB is. The Batman had Robin, Batgirl, Alfred as a butler, and tha lot of the classic Batman rogues gallery (even if most of the designs weren't very good).
Beware the Batman, not only has Batman, but Alfred, Gordon, Barbara Gordon, Katana--who has long been associated with Batman, and villains that are also associated with Batman... so, I really don't understand this particular criticism. The show literally features the same characters that have appeared in almost every other Batman franchise...


No, it doesn't. Alfred is not Alfred, Katana is not Katana. It features the same names, not the same characters.

Professor Zoom wrote: View Post
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Really? So any random hero has his parents killed which motivates him to be a hero to save his broken down city, operates out of his mansion, has a butler who aides him on his war on crime, drives a car that resembles his costume, and has a strange rogues gallery that all seem motivated by madness... That basically ONLY describes Batman. What other super hero has those details?
This batman doesn't have a butler, he has a super muscled thug. The number of superheroes with parents who are killed (not just died, but actually murdered) includes everyone from (depending on the version, but usually) Green Arrow (parents die, becomes hero, even has a car shaped like his gimmick for awhile) to Spider-Man (more because of his uncle, but it was a father figure) to even people like Aquaman (his human Dad and his mother's deaths, at different times, definately made him who he is), and you could even stretch it to fit people like Dr. Doom, Black Panther and Namor. They didn't specifically become heroes, especially not Doom or Namor, but all three had the death of atleast one parent help them become what they are (BP's dad was killed by Klaw and that eventually lead to him becoming BP, Doom is in a mask because he built a machine to contact his dead mom which ended up blowing up in his face, and Namor was shaped by his dead parents to a point as well). None of those are the same as Batman, but I'm just pointing out that Batman is far from the only character in comics to become what he is because of murdered/killed parents. Having gadgets based on the gimmick is also used by 80% of superheros, so thats definately not batman specific.


Professor Zoom wrote: View Post
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but none of the characters feel right, and thats probably one of the biggest reasons it doesn't feel like batman to me.
An example would be nice. Bruce seems to be acting like Bruce. Gordon like Gordon. Alfred... yeah... this is certainly a newer version of him... But that's one out of the 4 major actors acting a little different.
Katana doesn't resemble her comic version at all. I mean she's almost more out of character than Alfred. Brave and The Bold's version was also different, but I still liked her and B&TB's version of the outsiders. Alfred is of course different, so much so that he's not the same character, just an action hero with the same name. Gordon is the generic cop that hates the vigilante main character. At this point, thats a very overused cliche. Bruce Wayne/Batman is similar, but he's basically the generic version of batman. If you made the least interesting but most recongniseable to everyone version of Batman, you've basically got him.

Professor Zoom wrote: View Post
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The batcave, the batsuit, the batbelt, the batcar, Alfred, Wayne Manor, Gotham, Gordon, Barbara Gordon, Katana... yeah... they don't like ANY of the familiar Batman stuff.

Besides the same ole same ole rogues gallery, what "familiar" Batman stuff is missing?
All the stuff you listed is just cosmetic, surface similarities. What's missing is any resemblence besides names and basic appearances (and sometimes not even that) to the characters they were named after. Bruce is the closest, and I'll admit he is Batman like (if a generic version of batman) but he's the only one, and he's not particularly well.

My main problem with everything in this show isn't the differences, its the fact that none of them do anything interesting, and none of them were improvements. If Action hero alfred was an improvement over real Alfred, I wouldn't complain. If Katana being a generic sidekick for Batman and no longer an ass kicking Samurai type hero was interesting, I'd say it was.

Some of the stuff is just stupid no matter what (like the parade of generically written z-list villains without one good, classic villain) but I get that all shows are different. While actually having B:TAS would be the best thing ever, outside of that I realise the shows are going to be different. But, there are batman things you see in basically every version, and thats what makes Batman who he is. I don't care if batman earth One had action hero alfred, that was a stupid one shot comic done by a guy who has become very mediocre over the years. There is a reason a lot of different variations of batman have similarities, like Alfred being a Butler. Its because those elements work the way they are, and they don't need to be gotten rid of because some idiots are bored after doing cartoons for so long. I'd argue that Alfred the butler is just as important as having a Batman who doesn't use a gun. I don't care if back in the olden days Alfred was a bumbling idiot or not even around, things evolve as time goes on. BTB isn't an evolution of the Batman formula, so far its an experiment of very average quality done by people who should just stop working on batman if they don't like the franchise.

Christopher wrote: View Post
^Actually Gordon's different from the usual portrayal too, because he sees Batman as an adversary rather than an ally.

But as Murakami says, the whole point is to do Batman in a way that's not just the same old stories we've had before. It's a different take on Batman and his world, taking the familiar basics but going in new directions with them. This is Batman, same as always, but he's a young Batman who's still wrestling with balancing the two sides of his identity. This is Alfred, Bruce's loyal servant and father figure who happens to have a military-intelligence background, but with that part of his character shifted more into the forefront than it's usually been before. This is Jim Gordon, the good cop and loving father, but he hasn't yet learned to trust Batman. This is Gotham, the dark and dangerous city full of maniacs, but they're not the same old maniacs we've seen a million times before. And all of those differences from what we've seen before are what make it interesting.

None of that is interesting. The cop who hates the vigilante is one of the biggest superhro cliches now. Action hero alfred was just done because it was different, not because it was an improvement. Thats the shows big problem, its just different for the sake of being different. None of the changes are improvements over the classic Batman formula, they're just different and bring down the show.
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