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Old July 21 2013, 11:36 PM   #104
Darkwing
Commodore
 
Location: This dry land thing is too wierd!
Re: Marines and Combat Personel?

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
Darkwing wrote: View Post
Eddie, in the military, there is no such thing as a request.
That's kinda my point, wing. Orders are orders, and officers obey the chain of command as a matter of course. Of the very few circumstances in which an officer may receive a "request" from his or her superiors, those are NEVER confused with orders.

Orders may be phrased as requests, but only in the sense of "Flight is requesting another update on V103's engine trouble" which is just another way of saying "call the boss again."
in the last 20 years, I've heard many "requests". On occasion followed by "that was phrased as a request...".

Picard's choice of words is relevant here: he agrees to that request, and he tells Kolrami the same thing in the conference. Starfleet, therefore, gave him a choice. This isn't something you see a lot (hardly ever) in military organizations, but it's something you see a whole hell of a lot in police departments, private security companies and paramilitary organizations. Although, in fairness, in the military it most often occurs when a particular unit (say, a Coast Guard vessel) is being asked by a civilian organization (say, Chicago Tallships) to participate in some kind of public relations stunt. In Picard's case, it's significant that Kolrami is not actually a Starfleet officer and doesn't appear to be a ranking official in the Federation government either.
Kolrami appeared to be a contractor, to me. But again, I've experienced many "requests", such as "5th fleet requests a ship to investigate a suspicious dhow". That was a ranking officer kind enough to let several skippers argue who should get the tasking, rather than deciding to interrupt a particular ship's tasking.
You would know this if you'd served
Which I did, which to a small extent is part of the reason I find the concept of Starfleet as a military organization kind of laughable. They remind me of a bunch of cub scouts imitating a submarine movie: no readbacks, little discipline, not much decorum. You can tell what they're TRYING to be, but they're clearly not.
so, which branch? AF, Army, Navy, CG, Guard? I'm gueessing CG.
Remember, Paramount didn't have a military advisor, and SG-1 did, yet they're not that good about it, either. It's just Hollywood writing out of their nether orifice.
That, however, is not something I can't defend intellectually because it's a perception issue and COULD be unique to my own experiences: excepting a handful of TOS episodes, the only thing Starfleet seems to have in common with any branch of the U.S. military is that they carry weapons. And that's about it.
courts-martial? Uniform regs? Causus Belli? POW camps? We never saw Starfleet ever do anything that wasn't a military mission, aside from scale/milieu, except that the late 20th century division of labor in a smaller world with a bigger government and instant comms caused. NOAA, NASA, et alia took over some of those jobs because it spread the work to other bureacracies. This created the false idea the military isn't part of that.
Having guns does not a military make.
On that scale, only an anarchy would allow world-killing weapons to anyone except the military.
anyone who's served would also have scorn for the "non-military" starfleet idea.
Why? Is the Army Astronaut program really that popular with the kids?
[/quote] You're the only Trekkie I've ever heard of who's served that thinks SF isn't the UFP's military, just not well written.
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