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Old July 17 2013, 03:22 PM   #94
blssdwlf
Commodore
 
Re: Marines and Combat Personel?

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
blssdwlf wrote: View Post
If there were separate DS9 Starfleet Military guys you would think we would've seen them in the ground combat scenarios?
No.

Because since all of the main characters are Starfleet, the only time we ever see ground combat is when Starfleet is sent to do it. Which is, apparently, an INCREDIBLY rare occurrence.
You must've missed out on most of DS9 then. "Battle of AR-558" and the deployment of Starfleet forces to protect the streets of Earth in "Paradise Lost" would indicate Starfleet does also ground combat.

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
But I could ask the same question: If the Andorians are still members of the Federation, you would think we would've seen them... EVER?
The Andorians got 13 mentions in DS9.

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
Like I said, the two absences are probably related.
Doubtful. You're assuming that the Andorians would become the core of the ground forces which may not have been the case.

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
And if we're going on the military ranks of the MACOs which consisted of ground forces-type ranks then Colonel West of Starfleet would equate to the Military.
That or Colonel West is the MACO liaison to Starfleet. It would explain why he is one of exactly two Starfleet officers we have ever seen to ever be referred to by that rank (the other being Kira Nerys, who served on DS9 in a similar capacity between Starfleet and the Bajoran Military).
Kira always wore her Bajoran military uniform. Colonel West wore a Starfleet uniform. He would not be a liaison and again it corresponds to the TOS timeframe that Starfleet was a Military.

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
I'm not sure the two are unrelated. Starfleet, after all, is dominated by humans; it's likely, based on what we know of the Federation, that MACO is dominated by Andorians.
We do not know if Andorians decided to join the MACOs or if the MACOs even continued to exist after the formation of the Federation or was integrated into Starfleet.

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
My basic point is that a military organization wouldn't take five of its ships away from their patrol duties for an experiment like this unless all five of those ships were also testing some vital new system and/or training their crews in some specific scenario, as the Navy does with the Top Gun school and the Air Force does with Red Flag. It's almost unheard of, in those cases, for an entire squadron to be pulled off of active duty JUST to run mock engagements against a UAV or to test a new weapon system.
Top Gun/Red Flag are fighter training schools that need to have aircraft in a controlled location to train.

Navy wargames like the one the M5 did involve many units that train on location, often front-line. See the recent US-South Korean wargames.

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
If your point was more specific to periods of peace time then I wouldn't be debating you However since you lump the entirety of Starfleet's existence into a non-military organization then that's where you took it too broadly.
I doubt it even makes a difference. You, like many people, assume that ONLY a military organization could participate in combat or a full-scale (declared or otherwise) war, and that Starfleet would not have participated unless the declaration of its new status had been made.
I'm just pointing out what the dialogue and characters at their respective times have described Starfleet as. Your evidence that Starfleet is not military in TNG's and ENT's time rests also on dialogue. TOS and TOS Movies say Starfleet was a Military. It has nothing to do with assumptions but evidence as presented.

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
When Starfleet in "Wrath of Khan" is referred to as "The Military"
And referred to incorrectly by an impulsive brat with daddy issues. We've been over this before.
And confirmed by Carol Marcus who is the actual person that called Starfleet, "The Military". Yes, we've been over this before
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