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Old July 14 2013, 12:00 PM   #262
DeepSpaceWine
Commander
 
Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

Anwar wrote: View Post
MacLeod wrote: View Post
What person A defines as something being trashed, person B defines as critisim. It is possible to enjoy something yet feel that it was lacking in parts.
But that's not how it is with VOY. When anyone "criticizes" it all they do is point out the bad and never mention the good. That's not critique, it's just trashing something.

And no, "It should've been serialized" or "These characters should've been more!" are not critiques, they're just more mudslinging.

Like I said with "Living Witness" the number one thing always pointed to is "There shouldn't be a backup!" because they let that drown out anything else about the episode.

A fair few people don't think VOY ever really sold us it's premise hence why the show is referred to as TNG-lite.
The premise itself was incomplete, had some good points, but overall needed a bit more time put into it to iron out the kinks. That was also part of the problem, they took something that wasn't totally ready and put it on the air.

And yes "Shades of Gray" and "Spock's Brain" are bad episodes and they are both definantly towards the franchises bottom end in terms of quality.
And yet neither gets mentioned as much as VOY's "criticisms" are.
Oh if I could rec this....

This sums up my view towards Voyager's reception. Voyager ended over a decade ago, whiners got their vision of Voyager by their favorite writer Ronald Moore, nu Battlestar Galactica. That's what they wanted Voyager to be, at least according to their own words around 2004/05. Yeah, it may not have turned out as they hoped but as so rarely happens in sci-fi television, they got the series they were hoping for in another series.

I had hoped people could finally leave the critical baggage of the past and watch Voyager as just another Star Trek show and take episodes as they are, but instead we get old divides being rehashed by new generations. It's just like the console wars. At some point people just have to step back and realize they're fighting over useless points. Just play the games, get the console you want and stop spreading crap about all the other consoles online or here, just watch the episodes or not watch the episodes. It doesn't mean negative views can't be spoken, but at some point, the bitching gets tiresome. Voyager's been nagged on for 18 years. When is it enough? Yeah, it isn't the series many people hoped. So what? That battle is over. Yes it may not be great, but is it all bad? At some point, people have to accept everything isn't going to be the finest steak, wine, and caviar and sometimes a burger and fries or a sandwich, sometimes pretty good, sometimes acceptable, and sometimes edible but not much more is going to make up most of the meals one eats. We can enjoy things that aren't great. Good and decent aren't so bad. There are more fulfilling pursuits. Imagine if there were major complaints still being rehashed over the filming of Seinfeld, The X-Files, or Hercules, or even TOS or I Love Lucy. Wouldn't it seem inane? What is it about Star Trek that people can't just say "Not my cup of tea", instead having to watch it, torturing themselves, giving them the 'right' to complain or not watching it but complaining to no end how a series over a decade old/off the air isn't what they wanted it to be? Same goes for people being partisan, feeling like they need to love 1 or 2 Star Trek series but absolutely hate the other 3 and they have to show their hate by going on the warpath to all within earshot or keystroke.


A huge irony is people attack certain Voyager plot holes (Equinox, Juggernaut, Ashes to Ashes geographic discrepancies) yet they wholeheartedly gobble up the Doctor leaving Voyager on a potential one-way trip for a whole month "in Paris' good hands" for an '80s drama episode (Prodigal son wants ailing father to respect him, says to father, "Father. Help me help you". /groan), or Barclay's navel-gazing juvenile empowerment fantasies (AKA "Hollow Pursuits Part 2") where everyone idolizes him and he can calculate Voyager's position despite *six* leaps of variable distance and means (well, two were slipstream) since "Message in a Bottle", or Barclay acting like a Ferengi with some stupid premise which means red giants across the galaxy can be used as a wormhole network all to get nanoprobes they could get from any number of dead drones from "I, Borg" or random Borg attacks or occurrences throughout Alpha/Beta Quadrant space. People loved certain episodes with gaping plot holes and ignored those plot holes. Those episodes also corresponded with TNG guest stars. At least everyone didn't fall over themselves with the Riker/Troi Enterprise 'Valentine' or the Bajoran brainwashing Tuvok to revive the Maquis (even though the Cardassians were decimated 1 year earlier and wouldn't pose a threat to the Bajorans for quite some time). These People didn't seem to mind the distance barrier falling as Starfleet Command could call collect long-distance, nor Ferengi, Klingons, et al visiting Voyager even though this undermined the premise of being isolated halfway across the galaxy and being out on their own, and given what TNG established of the speed of subspace communications, it was just the first technological leap ahead, on the same level with transphasic torpedoes and ablative hull armor. *Sigh* People complain Voyager isn't hardcore enough, feral enough. They get nuBSG, still complain. They even whine about Equinox (and ratings showed it got no bump up, meaning complainers who were sitting out by Season 5 didn't tune back in to see this episode). The show undermines its own premise and distance and is frequently visited by TNG characters or Alpha/Beta Quadrant races and people are content. One might think people wanted Voyager to jump the shark... or they just wanted more TNG but can't admit to it.
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