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Old July 9 2013, 01:44 PM   #319
KGator
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Re: Scotty and his military comment

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
KGator wrote: View Post
umm, no. The idea that armed civilians or police forces could blunt or repel any type of assault by combat regulars is sheer lunacy...
I agree. That doesn't mean they don't still DO it out of sheer desperation.

More to the point: if it WASN'T lunacy -- if the police departments of particular country possessed weapons technology powerful enough to neutralize any offensive system possessed by anyone else's military at the touch of a button -- then the police ALONE would be more than sufficient for national defense. A separate entity specializing in defense would be totally unnecessary.
If your police department was tasked with national defense they would, by definition, be a military. This is why we have clearly established why Starfleet is a military - they provide national defense (or the interstellar equivalent of it).

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
KGator wrote: View Post
this isn't the Civil War. clearly you're not familiar with the lethality of modern militaries.
Clearly I AM, and my expectations are that said lethality is likely to increase precipitously as technology grows, and would only accelerate in a future dominated by the kinds of enemies the Federation faces. OTOH, Starfleet clearly lacks this level of lethality or clarity of purpose: Starfleet is a civilized bunch, and war is an uncivilized business..
So you believe the American military is comprised of a bunch of warmongering, violent, sociopathic killers and thus your fictional Starfleet would NEVER stoop to the level to resemble such a bunch of bloodthirsty savages? That's "far too uncivilized . . . and could you pass the grey poupon?"

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
My conclusion, therefore, is that prevailing technological and political conditions have made fighting IN SPACE to be a relatively pushbutton affair that requires more science and engineering knowhow than actual combat prowess (hence Riker and Picard's attitudes in "Peak Performance" and, for that matter, the incredibly bizarre setup of the war game itself). The situation is obviously quite different on the ground, but as far as SPACE is concerned, Starfleet fits that role effectively enough that the Federation has not (yet) seen the need to create a branch of the military to operate in space.
I'm not sure if you have been keeping up with modern robotic advancements, air combat and military drones but warfare on earth is ALREADY becoming kind of a push button affair. Yet whoever pushes those buttons will be a member of the military rather than the janitor on duty or the nearest secretary. For the Federation, Starfleet (the military) pushes those buttons. Whoever pushes those buttons is the military. If you have seen evidence that someone jumps in front of Worf to fire phasers or that Picard receives all his instructions to open fire from a separate military officer on board . . . please share that with the rest of us.

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
in other words, no matter how many times you've watched Red Dawn you need to leave the fighting to the professionals.
I'm sure the Palestinians and the Syrian rebels will be delighted to hear that they their amateur volunteers have no need to participate in their respective wars.


Clearly you are not able to recognize the distinction between a "Civil War" and a war between opposing powers. In a civil war the existing government is either threatened with losing complete or partial control of the state. The factions involved are internal in nature. Its one thing for Syrian civilians to take up arms against their OWN military (or portions of the military fighting against other elements of the same military establishment) as opposed to actively taking up arms and engaging in combat to repel an incursion of the Israeli Army. Historically the Palestinians have had very little success in direct confrontation with Israeli forces and thus prefer to utilize more terrorist and guerilla tactics. It almost seems as if you draw your military analagies back to the revolutionary war where local militias were simply comprised of local citizens who brought their guns with them to battle.

But this is interesting. So earlier when I was using an example of the LAPD trying to defend against an invasion of the city you naturally inferred that they were being attacked by San Diego.

My bad, I should have clarified that for you. I was discussing warfare between two distinct and opposing military forces rather than civil disobedience or an escalated version of clan or gang warfare within the same state.
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