Shaka Zulu wrote:
.....according to this guy;
I get where this guy is coming from, unfortunately, that place is somewhere between 1987 and the late 90's. I was a fan of the Superman comics during the time, but most of what he mentions is, in terms of the difference between comics now and comics 20 years ago, pretty dated. These concepts lend themselves more to a movie/show with a similar tone to Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman
than Man of Steel
. I loved those comics to death, but they belong in their own time, not now.
Dissecting it point by point:
Metropolis As A Place
Sure, the entire finale of Man of Steel took place in Metropolis but a) most of it was destroyed and b) it was a generic city. I want to see a Metropolis as textured as the many screen versions of Gotham City. I want to see Suicide Slum, the dark side of the gleaming city. I want to see a high tech, almost science fictional city, the bright yin to Gothamís yang. I want to have a sense of place when we see the city streets. Too many previous Superman movies treated Metropolis as just New York City, but it's a town that reflects the general hopefulness of Superman as a character. Bring that to the screen!
This is one of his better ideas and it might work well if we see Metropolis being rebuilt. Suicide Slum might be where the poor who couldn't get out of the city live. In one of the Superman comics, Superman is helping rebuild Metropolis after a fight and focuses on Suicide Slum, because, as he reasons, that's where many of the blue-collar workers, who are out cleaning and repairing the city are. And it's those areas that are probably being overlooked by the people paying these workers. I could see Lex stirring some stuff up here, by talking the talk, but then retreating to his section of town, which would be the one that was rebuilt the fastest.
Introduced into the Superman mythos in Supermanís Pal Jimmy Olsen*, the Newsboy Legion is a scrappy group of dead end kids - or little rascals, if you must - who live in Metropolisí Suicide Slum, sling newspapers and get into occasional scrapes with the law but mean well. Man of Steel was desperately missing a man-on-the-street point of view, especially for a movie so obsessed with how Supermanís presence would impact the world. The Legion can be shorthand for that reaction, with each of the kids viewing Superman in their own way. They would also add some humanity and humor, needed in the semi-sterile and dour environment of Man of Steel.
And this is where he lost me. The Newsboy Legion, again is a fond memory from my youth of reading the Superman
comics in the early 90's. However, even then, aside from the odd story, weren't really used to full effect. Sure they helped Superboy break out during "Reign of the Supermen," (more on that in a bit), but they were only minor players. So much so, they only had a small cameo in Justice League Unlimited
, even though they probably would have made a good addition to the cast of Superman: The Animated Series
Plus, when's the last time you saw a kid selling newspapers on the street? Hell, I wonder if, even in a big city, there'd be enough kids delivering newspapers to form a "Legion."
Lex Luthor As A Businessman
Weíve never seen businessman Lex Luthor onscreen, despite John Byrne remolding the character as a tycoon way back in 1986. Itís time that we got a Lex who is a captain of industry and who seems to have the best interests of Metropolis - and the country - at heart. Let Lex rebuild Metropolis - perhaps using salvaged Kryptonian tech to make it more science fictiony, as it has been in great Superman stories of the past - and begin waging a campaign of doubt against Superman. But whatever happens, he cannot be the villain of Man of Steel 2. At least he canít be the villain at the front; he can be revealed as the puppetmaster behind the scenes, setting the stage for his big plan in Man of Steel 3.
And we're back on track. Yes, Luthor should be a businessman in the Man of Steel
universe. This is not a universe where Lex would work as a mad scientist or in his purple and green armor. He should be rebuilding Metropolis, but not with Kryptonian tech. He should be spearheading an effort to slander Superman as "alien" and dangerous. I'm not sure in the universe set up by Man of Steel
though he should ever be the primary villain. Without his armor, mad science, or kryptonite, there's no way to have a climax of Superman vs. Lex.
Maggie Sawyer and the SCU
Metropolisí SCU is the Special Crimes Unit, and in a super-powered world they find themselves tasked with cases involving monsters, freaks, flying guys and aliens. Maggie Sawyer heads the SCU, and sheís a great character in her own regard - a tough, skilled gay woman who makes no bones about her orientation. In the comics SCU assists Superman with superpowered cases, and since Supes hopefully wonít be breaking the necks of all his enemies, they could come in handy in future adventures. They also help illustrate the ways society changes around the presence of Superman, a theme dropped in a big way at the end of Man of Steel.
If they are very, very careful about this, then yes, I agree they should use the SCU or what it evolved into "The Science Police" (which, Legion of Super-Heroes
reference aside, is a stupid name). It would only make sense for the police to be prepared to take down a threat on the scale of what they faced in the first movie. However, though it should be lead by Col. Hardy. I've got nothing against Maggie Sawyer, I like her as a character, probably moreso once they moved her over to Gotham, but it would only be logical to utilize Hardy in this capacity. If anything, have Maggie be in the SCU, maybe as a second in command to Hardy. Then, maybe Hardy could be transferred to another city (tying it into the Justice League
idea, with a line like, "Hardy, they need you in Central City, there's meta activity happening there."). If they do use some version of the SCU, they had better well drop Dan "Terrible" Turpin in there as at least a cameo/Easter Egg.
Another argument against Maggie, and again, this is nothing to do with her as a character, but more to do with not wanting to drag the movie down with too much baggage, is that it shouldn't devote too much time to secondary characters. I say, fit what I said about Hardy and the SCU into a prequel comic, and have the SCU in the movie, but only in the background.
This secret genetic research facility has a long history in Superman comics, and their attempts at cloning and genetic manipulation can easily create threats that are Superman level. In the comics theyíve tried to clone Superman before, so how about have them get a hold of Zodís body and use his DNA to make all sorts of superfreaks? Youíll notice that many of the items on this list come down to the same thing: picking up the dropped thread of the question asking how Supermanís presence impacts the world. One way is that a superpowers arms race is created, and Cadmus would be one of the players in that. But a movie Cadmus should reflect the complicated nature of the comic book Cadmus - their experiments yield heroic characters like the DNAliens, but also the occasional problem and monster.
Here we go into 90's-ville again. Great for its time, but I don't see it fitting into the Man of Steel
world, unless they are called in to experiment with left over Kryptonian DNA/bodies, as this guy suggests. But, I'm not sure I want the movies to head in that direction. However, cloning is an idea which doesn't always work well in execution. The DNAliens is an idea that would be better suited to, again, the DCAU, which did their own thing with Cadmus.
Besides, what made Cadmus so effective was the link between them and Krypton, which had wars over cloning. Superman had a personal connection to Cadmus, once he found out that his planet and ancestors were involved in a long and bloody war, which eventually destabilized Krypton's core, leading to its eventual destruction. And, while the non-natural birth does point to Kryptonians using some form of genetic manipulation, if not outright cloning, it would take a lot to work it into a sequel.
And, as much as I loved Dubbilex, the Guardian, and the other Kirby inspired creations, I don't see how it would work well in a sequel. Leave them as a small Easter Egg, with a nod to them getting possession of Zod's body, while S.T.A.R. gets the leftover tech.
The Borgified Corpse wrote:
The Old Mixer wrote:
Project Cadmus and the Newsboy Legion? I seriously doubt it. There's a lot of Superman material to mine without going that obscuro.
Newsboy Legion sounds a bit dated anyway.
The comics even realized this, as the New Krypton storyline running through the Superman comics in 2009-2010 had a subplot with Jimmy investigating some secret government conspiracy. This lead him to check on Cadmus, to find Dubbliex, who told him that the original Newsboy Legion was killed. In addition, their clones were missing, presumed dead, as well.
Later, Jimmy exposes the government group responsible for all-out war with the New Krypton and reveals he spread the word through a group of bloggers he dubbed, "The Newsboy Legion."
But Project Cadmus could be interesting. At the very least, it would be a way to introduce appropriate super-level villains into the story.
Yes, but I think it's very easy to have this go very, very wrong. If they're not careful, it will come off as corny.
I suppose it kind of makes sense that Lex Luthor wasn't in Man of Steel. That seems to be the trend nowadays that the first new movie in a well known property only hints at the main villain. He doesn't really appear until the 2nd movie. We've already seen this with Norman Osborn in The Amazing Spider-Man, the Joker in Batman Begins & The Dark Knight, and Professor Moriarty in the Robert Downey Jr. Sherlock Holmes movies.
I prefer it this way. The first movie is the origin and unless the villain is integral to the heroes origin (as Zod, being from Krypton, is), then there's no need trying to fit another villain's origin into the hero's. I'm not a big fan of the "Lex in Smallville" idea. Perhaps because I am beholded to Byrne's "Man of Steel" origin, but I don't see how having Clark and Lex meeting in Smallville as kids benefits anything. Besides, the way Man of Steel
handled things, it'd be hard not to at least acknowledge that the kids Clark went to school with, must have put 2 and 2 together and identified the relationship between Clark and Superman. This is a problem they'll have to address somehow.
Speaking of which, in an interview with Empire Magazine
David S. Goyer implies Perry must know that Clark is Superman. I'm actually okay with this idea. It strains credulity that a dyed-in-the-wool "Newspaperman" like Perry, who made his way up the ladder at the Daily Planet
on his strength as a reporter wouldn't at least suspect this.
I think it was during "Hush" in Batman
, where Bruce sees Perry and Clark interact as summarizes that Perry must
know, but is respecting Clark (and Lois) by playing along. Bruce also guesses that the same must be true for Commissioner Gordon.
I wouldn't mind a subplot where Lois, Clark, and Perry work on covering Clark's tracks a bit to make it harder for others to piece everything together.