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Old July 8 2013, 12:30 AM   #38
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Re: Just reread Dreadnaught!

Christopher wrote: View Post
I just don't think the Piper of Dreadnought! fits enough of the diagnostic criteria for a Mary Sue to qualify -- althoug the Piper of Battlestations! might, given how swiftly she's been promoted in rank and become a member of Kirk's inner circle. In Dreadnought!, at least, she's not smarter and better and more successful than the leads -- indeed, that's the entire point of her character in that book, that she's far, far behind Kirk in her ability and experience, even if she has a potential comparable to his.
Again, I don't think of being "smarter and better and more successful" as necessary "diagnostic criteria" for a Mary Sue. If your self-insertion fantasy involves you becoming a character's protégé (for example) instead of already being more talented than he is, that doesn't make the self-insertion any less a Mary Sue.

And I don't accept her central role as making her a Mary Sue, because she's just the lead of a whole ensemble of lower-decks characters, rather than a single standout guest star.
I don't accept that, either. All I was saying is that neither being central nor not-central is a determining factor for me.

Why is she a Mary Sue if Sarda, Merete, and Scanner aren't?
I think of all of those characters as Mary Sues, the author inserting her own characters (based, from what people have indicated about the book's background, on herself and her friends) into the Kirk/Spock/McCoy/Scotty roles.
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