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Old July 6 2013, 08:50 PM   #60
Crazy Eddie
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Re: Marines and Combat Personel?

blssdwlf wrote: View Post
It still doesn't take away his military credentials.
I never said it did. I said it contradicts Kirk's claim that he ISN'T a diplomat. He's trained to be BOTH, so his statement to the Organians is not entirely true.

Even less does it demonstrate if the statement is LITERALLY true. Is Kirk an actual member of the diplomatic corps, or is he merely trained to resolve disputes peacefully if he needs to? Is Kirk an actual member of a formal land army or is he merely trained to fight land battles if he needs to? Those are not necessarily the same thing.

My opinion is different than yours
That wasn't the question, now was it?

But Chekov did respond to his request for who gave the order.
And he gave the response he was ORDERED to give by Khan, who meanwhile was standing not more than two feet away from him. Somehow I doubt the ceti eel in his brain would have left him competent enough to engage David in a philosophical debate about the nature of Starfleet in Federation legal parlance.

I would take it as an admission that he is a soldier and that you admit that he is a soldier...
But you didn't call him a "soldier" you called him "baby killer." He didn't refute your accusation, ergo he is admitting he IS "someone who kills babies."

It makes no difference if you're talking to an actual soldier or just a guy in a Halloween costume. You're claiming that the lack of refutation is an admission of fact. That's a VERY shaky premise to say the least.

How do we know Carol or any of the other scientists didn't know about the protomatter?
Because David tells Saavik "I used protomatter in the genesis matrix." That's "I" not "we". He did it himself, and given the controversial nature of protomatter it's doubtful the rest of the team would have approved had he shared that information with them.

Good thing he's explicitly calling Starfleet the military.
That wouldn't be an "interpretation of events" would it?

What is David actually accusing Starfleet of? He says "We're all alone here. They waited until everyone was on leave to do this. Reliant was supposed to be at our disposal, not vice versa."

Who is the "everyone" he's talking about and why would their being on leave make any difference? Most likely he's referring to the Starfleet corps of engineers working the Genesis Cave and other personnel permanently attached as support for the Genesis Project... but if he was accusing STARFLEET of making him into their pawns, their "waiting until everyone was on leave" would contradict that theory, since in that case there'd be no Starfleet presence on the station to back up Reliant's seizure of the Genesis Device.

From what I can tell, David is accusing Starfleet of doing something even STARFLEET wouldn't normally agree to, and is being rebuffed by Carol who insists that Starfleet would never have agreed to be part of that. It's therefore possible that "scientists are pawns of the military" isn't mean to describe their situation, it's meant to describe Starfleet's. Remember that overgrown boyscout Carol used to hang around with? That's exactly the kind of man who would want to convert Genesis into a weapon of mass destruction... and HE'S the man who gave the order.

But I'll ask you again: what do YOU think David's interpretation of the situation is?

So you're confirming that there are not any non-military organizations comparable to a military with nukes.
I'm confirming that there are not any REAL organizations comparable to Starfleet.

If you didn't trust Picard that much why would you believe him if he said Starfleet was not a military organization?
Because I DO trust Picard enough to understand the factual nature of the organization he works for. I also trust worf to understand the factual nature of Federation law vis a vis military forces. In a disagreement between the two, Worf is an expert on military matters and I would lean ever so slightly on his expertise over Picard's.
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