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Old July 6 2013, 08:05 PM   #59
blssdwlf
Commodore
 
Re: Marines and Combat Personel?

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
blssdwlf wrote: View Post
No, McCoy explicitly said Kirk was also trained to be a diplomat but he's a soldier a majority ("so often") of the time.
Makes little difference: Kirk says "I'm a soldier, not a diplomat" but we have McCoy who says "You're a soldier AND a diplomat." They can't both be right.
No, that's not McCoy says. He called Kirk a soldier but also trained to be a diplomat. He can have secondary roles, like that of an explorer during peacetime. It still doesn't take away his military credentials.
MCCOY: Maybe you're a soldier so often that you forget you're also trained to be a diplomat. Why not try a carrot instead of a stick?
Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
She controls the conversation. She's the boss of them and she clearly rebutts his interpretation of the Starfleet's actions. If he was wrong about the military aspect of Starfleet she would've called him out.
What, in your opinion, IS David's interpretation and how do you know?
My opinion is different than yours and I know the same way you do - with imagination

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
Except that Carol Marcus is the same age or slightly older than Kirk and therefore her parentage wouldn't be affected by the Narada incident. We know her father is Admiral Marcus, and we know what he thinks of Starfleet in the alternate timeline. It's hardly unlikely -- given what we saw in TUC -- that his agenda was all that different in the Prime Timeline, especially since he would have been just one of MANY people who felt that way.
There are a host of variables that could make Carol, her father and NuTrek Starfleet different than in TWOK. Two separate continuities with different results.

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
Chekov didn't respond to his "military" comment either. No one did; Carol cut him off and Chekov politely responded to HER, not to David.
But Chekov did respond to his request for who gave the order. Like it or not, David was part of the conversation and his military comment was not refuted.
CHEKOV: I have my orders.
DAVID: Pin him down, Mother. Who gave the order?
CHEKOV: The order comes from Admiral James T. Kirk.
DAVID: I knew it! I knew it! All along the military has wanted to get their han...
CAROL: This is completely improper, Commander Chekov. I have no intention of allowing Reliant or any other unauthorised personnel access to our work or materials.
CHEKOV: I'm sorry that you feel that way, Doctor. Admiral Kirk's orders are confirmed.
Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
You're implying the lack of a rebuttal makes the statement equivalent to a fact. It's like running up to a soldier and saying "Hey there, baby killer!" and he responds with "Go fuck yourself." You would take that an admission that he IS, in fact, a baby killer?
I would take it as an admission that he is a soldier and that you admit that he is a soldier by describing him as such

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
The use of protomatter was reason enough, and David evidently knew that already since he never bothered to share that information with Saavik or Carol until the planet's instabilities came to light.
How do we know Carol or any of the other scientists didn't know about the protomatter?

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
Because the first time his comment was ignored as the ranting of pissed off hothead being a pissed-off hothead. The second time Carol flatly tells him his interpretation is wrong, and again, we don't know what his interpretation IS.
Good thing he's explicitly calling Starfleet the military. We don't need to know any interpretation there

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
Are any NOAA ships armed with nuclear weapons? Your NOAA comparison, while interesting, lacks actual points to compare with.
That's because we're comparing fiction to the real world. An armed NOAA survey ship would be just as fictional as a starfleet vessel, but it would operate almost exactly the same way.
So you're confirming that there are not any non-military organizations comparable to a military with nukes.

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
So if Picard said Starfleet was a military organization you'd find something to discredit him on?
There's nothing to discredit here. Worf thinks of EVERYTHING in military terms, partially because he's a tactical officer, but MOSTLY because he's a Klingon.

Significantly, if Worf ever came out and stated that Starfleet was a military organization I would believe him over Picard; Worf, of all people, would know a military when he sees one.
If you didn't trust Picard that much why would you believe him if he said Starfleet was not a military organization?

But, I'm not questioning Picard just like I'm not questioning Kirk or McCoy or any of the other characters. They said what they said and what we have is a Military Starfleet for TOS and the TOS Movies and a Non-Military Starfleet for TNG. DS9's Starfleet apparently went Military for the war.
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