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Old July 5 2013, 09:02 PM   #36
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: Highest Ranking Woman?

I. Rest. My. Case
As you well should, as you have not provided a shred of evidence to support your erroneous original claims or your later ones.

The evidence presented still lacks any phrase suggesting Lester wanted to be a starship captain originally, but was thwarted -or any phrase suggesting she hated Starfleet, for any reason.

OTOH, any phrase suggesting that the starship captain position falling on her lap as part of the body-swap plan would have been Lester's ultimate goal, the one that would satisfy her, can be seen as a mere means-to-an-end situation: she's satisfied at having defeated and humiliated Kirk, and is just reveling in her victory / wriggling in her inability to think of any future course of action.

Lester doesn't take command of a starship from Starfleet. She takes it from Kirk - away from Kirk. She has studied the art with the specific purpose of thus being able to take it away from Kirk. It's all about Kirk, from start to bitter finish, just as her closing cries testify; captaincy is just a means to an end.

McGivers was an accessory to the attempted murder of her captain.
Yes. And in any other show, such a character would have come to a bitter end, justly punished for her impudence (typically by being hoist to her own petard, with the hands of the hero remaining clean). In "Space Seed", she triumphs, her cause justified, her status secured. Which is why she's not a particularly bad or repressive role model for her times, even though she is a criminal.

When did Kirk try to kill his crew, other than when he was split into two halves, and therefore could not possibly be held legally responsible?
Who said anything about "his crew"? Heroes have opponents, who become free game by virtue of standing in the way of the hero. McGivers' opponent was Kirk, whom she defeated, without harming him in the end. Kirk's opponents varied.

Is there some reason for your hostile tone?
I tend to get irritated at people who don't want to see any of the six to twelve sides of the coin even after they are rather trivially presented, is all. Narrow-mindedness in a debate about presenting characters in a narrow-minded way is something of a double irritant; the rest is just classic net debate hubris. But when that comes off as hostility, I have done something wrong, and I apologize - that wasn't quite my intention.

Do you think that just because I'm a woman
...Didn't notice. Honestly.

I can't think poorly of a female character I find vapid and easily swayed by the last charismatic male who looks at her? Whatever Palamas is, it's not professional.
I don't see why professionalism should rank particularly high in the evaluation of a Trek character. Kirk is at his moral best, not to mention at his most exciting, when he defies orders and uses his own judgement.

Lester was crazy; Palamas fell under the influence of a God. There's no room left there for the personality of the character to show through.

Timo Saloniemi
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