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Old July 4 2013, 01:08 AM   #50
blssdwlf
Commodore
 
Re: Marines and Combat Personel?

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
J.T.B. wrote: View Post
So there's one person explicitly stating that Starfleet isn't military, but others have said it is
Only two people ever implied that it was. One was David Marcus, who earlier described Admiral Kirk as a "boyscout" and later accused him of murdering the Genesis Science Team. The other was Sisko, when he describes admiral Leyton's coup de tat as a "military dictatorship."
Kirk, McCoy, Garth of Izar, David Marcus and Carol Marcus and the Military Aide and C in C. That would be 7 people during the TOS thru TOS Movie time period.

Sisko's remark occurs well after TOS so it's possible during DS9's war that Starfleet went Military for the duration of combat. For TOS, Spock's comment about 70 years of unremitting hostility with the Klingons could indicate that Starfleet had been Military for at least that long while "keeping the peace".

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
In David's case it would be just one of a half dozen examples of him not knowing what the fuck he's talking about. In
Carol Marcus does not refute David's "military" description only the intended use of the Genesis device by Starfleet.

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
J.T.B. wrote: View Post
some Starfleet personnel identify themselves as soldiers.
ONE Starfleet officer describes himself as a soldier when talking to a bunch of sanctimonious Organians that are really pissing him off by refusing to fight for their own freedom.
Two Starfleet officers. Kirk and McCoy and in two different episodes. In any case, your example doesn't invalidate it.

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
What IS definitive, however, is that Starfleet has been explicitly described as a non-military organization and implicitly stated to be one far more often than the reverse.
What IS definitive is that Starfleet has been explicitly a Military organization during TOS and TOS Movies as the dialogue supports it. For TNG, Enterprise and probably Voyager they were your "explorers with guns" and the dialogue bears that out.

DS9 on the other hand could've started out as non-military and due to the war Starfleet became Military. The dialogue bears out that "Starfleet control over the government" equals "military rule".
SISKO: What you're trying to do is to seize control of Earth and place it under military rule.
LEYTON: If that's what it takes to stop the Dominion.
SISKO: So you're willing to destroy paradise in order to save it.
SISKO: Do you think other Federation worlds are going to sit back and let their President be replaced by a military dictatorship?
LEYTON: Hardly a dictatorship, Ben.
SISKO: Overthrowing a legitimately elected President and giving Starfleet direct control over the government? It sounds like a dictatorship to me, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks so.
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