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Old July 4 2013, 12:47 AM   #49
Crazy Eddie
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Re: Marines and Combat Personel?

J.T.B. wrote: View Post
Actually, Starfleet seems to a large degree to be based on NOAA with some sophisticated weapon systems installed in the boot. It doesn't seem reflect military practices all that well, especially compared to other sci-fi productions that explicitly seek to depict those practices (e.g. Battlestar Galactica, Seaquest, Stargate SG-1).
Except Starfleet trains for combat, NOAA does not.
And operationally, that is actually ONLY difference between NOAA and Starfleet. If you took the RV Atlantis and bolted on an Otobreda Compact and a couple of torpedo launchers, it would literally be the maritime counterpart of the starship Enterprise.

OTOH, I'll again remind you that NOAA is also a uniformed service and is not, strictly speaking, a civilian agency either.
Not really. You're referring to the NOAA commissioned corps
Of course. You know, the guys who actually OPERATE their ships and aircraft.

Unlike Starfleet officers, NOAA commissioned officers are not subject to military justice...
Yes they are, depending on the offense. But again, we don't actually know enough about Federation legal traditions to know for sure that a formal civilian court even exists.

"Implicitly stated..." is begging the question as it assumes the definition excludes war-fighting forces not explicitly declared to be "military"
And "Warfighting forces not declared to be military" is EXACTLY what Starfleet is. The Federation, like the Japanese Government, has apparently decided that this distinction means something to them even if it doesn't mean much to anyone else.

And that would be enough of an issue if Starfleet WAS a defensive force which was for whatever reason being referred to as a non-military organization. But it's not even that; it's an armed exploration fleet that is being referred to as a non-military organization.

My point being, if we're trying to pin down how the word is actually used and understood, absent a 24th century dictionary, the sample is too small to be definitive.
As far as Starfleet is concerned, the fact that it's not a military organization is definitive. What we're trying to pin down is WHY.
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