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Old July 1 2013, 01:22 AM   #160
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Re: Into Darkness and the novelverse [SPOILERS]

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Charles Phipps wrote: View Post
I think the issue is further complicated by the fact Khan's ethnicity in "Space Seed" is a pun. Albeit, one you have to think about.

Specifically, Khan is an Aryan.
Which was essentially Nick Meyer's take on it when the production of ST II hired blond Judson Scott - and Deney Terrio's peroxided Chippendale strippers - as Khan's men.

In his "To Reign in Hell" novel, Greg Cox even explains how the babies born to Khan's multiracial "Space Seed" followers all end up resembling blond Aryans.
I think you're missing his point. The use of "Aryan" to refer to blond Nordic types was an error, or a lie, on the Nazis' part. "Aryan" literally means "Iranian" -- the two words are cognates of each other. What happened was that the Nazis mistook a theory of linguistic development -- that the languages of Europe and India branched out from a language spoken by an ancestral population that lived in Iran -- for a theory of racial descent in which a "pure" original race spawned various "degenerated" branches. And they wanted to portray themselves as the pure race, so they called themselves "Aryan" after the name of the ancestral language family even though they were a different ethnic group.

What Charles is pointing out is that the actual Aryan or Indo-Iranian peoples migrated into northern India and their descendants are now the dominant ethnic and linguistic group there; thus, as a presumably Indian Sikh, Khan would be Aryan in a legitimate ethnic or linguistic sense, as opposed to the completely BS sense in which the Nazis used it.

DarKush wrote: View Post
I can understand your desire to see Shatner and Montalban interact and I wouldn't have minded seeing that myself, though I think the movie works the way it was constructed. And I don't think there could've been an interaction between the two without an altercation. I don't see how the story could be played any differently since Khan was so far gone.
I didn't say I didn't want an altercation, I just said it's beside the point of what I did want to see. There are many ways a face-to-face confrontation could've been written. There could've been a fight that Kirk lost. There could've been a fight that Kirk cleverly found a way to win. There could've been a confrontation with one or the other of them captured and confined, like several of the Kirk-Khan scenes in STID. Or they could've chosen to make Khan not be so far gone, so that a calmer exchange between them would've been possible. Just something. Giving actors an opportunity to play off each other is important enough that a way could've been found. (Nemesis managed to give Patrick Stewart and Tom Hardy several scenes together even after their open confrontation began: a scene where Picard was helplessly confined and Shinzon taunted him, a scene where Shinzon projected a solid-seeming hologram into Picard's ready room so Hardy could actually be on the set with Stewart, and a climactic fight scene where Picard was at a definite physical disadvantage. You can find a way if you're sufficiently motivated.)

TWOK Khan wanted to hurt Kirk. And being smart enough to not fall for Kirk's challenge to beam down to the Genesis station, Khan decided the best way was to strike at Kirk's friends and ship while he was helpless to do anything about it.
But you just said that Khan would surely win any fight with the aging Kirk. So why not beam down to face him directly?
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