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Old June 28 2013, 08:08 PM   #256
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Re: NFL 2013 Off-Season Discussion

Use of Time wrote: View Post
Wow. Relax.
No one's heated, don't try and paint me as emotional to cover the fact that you presented a bad argument. I just refuted the examples you were using, since they were, you know, bad examples...

The things you are arguing with me about are things I already agree with you about. I'm talking about the media image that ESPN tries to cram down our throat. What you perceive as a knock to your beloved Patriots was in fact a knock on the media. In fact if you dig deep what you will see is a compliment to the organization.
So why counter-point my 'argument' with you again? Just to violently agree? We're in agreement, don't take more shots at me doing it...

The media consistently praises the organization for getting hard working stand up guys that for the most part stay out of trouble which make the Patriots this model franchise.
Absolutely agree it was a media-driven thing. Will argue that the Pats tend to keep their noses cleaner than most, but they aren't saints. Tough people playing a violent game. In general, you DO read about the Pats less than a lot of other teams in the court news, though. They aren't absent completely, though. Happens to every team, even if 52 of the 53 guys on the roster are at bible camp all spring, there will be one idiot at a club or with an illegal gun somewhere. It's that kind of culture that a lot of players come from...

They lambast the Jets for being a media circus for signing Tebow but somehow its ok with the Patriots.
Jets are a joke, what do you expect? And when they do nothing but run their mouths, they reap what they sow there. They let the 3rd string QB become a media circus and talk to the press constantly. Do you see the press getting constant access to him in New England? They tried to make it a big deal for a while, and the Pats just kinda shut it down. He's not holding court here...

The only thing I am saying is that this myth of getting hard working blue collar players that keep their nose clean simply isn't true.
which i said, agreed with, and provided better examples of that you missed...

Hoodie and Kraft don't give a shit about character or the baggage the player brings to a team. (THAT IS A GOOD THING) They care about filling key spaces. All of the players I listed above have a prior history of being a distraction, lack of work ethic or simply being a diva. Belichick has the ability to look past that stuff and revive a players career. The only one that he really couldn't fix was Haynesworth.
That doesn't really agrue against the Patriots Way thing you're disputing, though. Those are mostly examples of players being a problem elsewhere, and then through change of scenery, coaching, or locker room presence, were turned into quiet and productive players. Which is closer to Patriots Way than not. Nonsense, just pointing out you used terrible examples is all.

List revisited.
Without requoting it all, what's your *new* point? The writeups got better, but it just shows that they were bad or distractions before, but mostly behaved or performed better in New England. What are you trying to show? I don't get it. If you wanted it to say what you think it does, you needed to list the Pats' OWN bad apples, not the guys that screwed up before getting a 2nd (or more) chance with the Pats. Like the list I gave you...

The only thing I am saying is that there is this myth that the Patriots set themselves apart from the other teams in the NFL by having these lofty standards when the real key to their success is the best head coach and QB in the game. The "Patriot Way" isn't a team full of Reggie White's. It is a team full of players that get a second chance with a coach that knows how to fit them into a position where they will be successful.
QB/Coach really is the big key. So many of the Qbs in the league are TERRIBLE, and make STUPID decisions. The coaches are even worse. The biggest part of the Pats' successful strategy is usually just to try and play it straight and wait for the other team to screw up or make a bad decision, and then take advantage of it. You don't have to be great to win in this league; all you have to do is wait for the other team to shoot themselves in the foot, and then be ready to take advantage. happens all the time.

It's possible I presented this badly
yes, which is the reason I commented, and showed you why. Your examples torpedo your point, mostly. You fixed them, but they still don't say what you're trying to get them to.

but it's also possible you had a knee jerk reaction to somebody "bad mouthing" your team.
You WANT that part to be true, but it really wasn't some homer reaction, just pointing out that while your main premise is mostly true, everything you used to try and show it said the opposite of what you wanted them to, and actually argued against your point. Not heated or emotional here, despite your trying to paint me that way. Just disputing what you said.

The murder thing stands on its own, and nowhere to really lay blame there except Hernandez. Don't think 31 other teams passed because they knew he'd murder someone (and then try and cover it up like a 3rd grader), just an idiot making an idiotic, thuggish decision. Disappointing to say the least.

The high praise for the Patriots by the media is well deserved but often misrepresentative of what exactly it is that makes them a perennial contender. There is a "Patriot Way" it's just evolved past that of the Super Bowl teams of the mid 2000's.
no arguemnt there. HOF Quarterback and Head Coach, strong middle class of players vice a few superstars and then scrubs (to mitigate injury, in part), and try not to do anything stupid, be ready to pounce on the other team when they eventually DO something stupid. Pretty much the keys to winning in the NFL.
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