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Old June 25 2013, 02:21 AM   #4358
Fleet Captain
Belz...'s Avatar
Location: In a finely-crafted cosmos... of my own making.

Would you mind structuring your replies, please ? It's hard to follow otherwise.

Ln X wrote: View Post
1. I do know how he took it.
Then what's the problem ?

3. It is no where near realistic, the fact we have Kirk as captain with less than two years of experience as a Starfleet officer throws professionalism and career advancement out of the window.
I don't think this reply is particularily honest. Either that or you lost track of my post. I was specifically answering you saying that "ST: Into Darkness is a steaming pile of boiling emotions, illogical actions and threadbare plots. ".

4. So admiral Marcus wants a war, big deal,
Ok, so your problem is not that it's not explained, but that you don't like it.

5. By the metric of Vulcan discipline, emotional restraint and what we know about Vulcans and Spock in general.
That's a personal judgment by you. Again, Vulcans are VERY emotional, and discipline does little against the loss of billions of your kin, including your own family.

6. Then giving his background what were Starfleet thinking making him the captain of the Enterprise?
I'll take it that you accept my explanation of the difference.

7. Agreed, consistently bad and stupid.
If you agree that he was like that before, what's the problem ?

8. So do changelings, they have a mean temper and a powerful racist streak.
They also don't have tear ducts. Liquid, remember ?

9. The Klingons are not that stupid, they would have suspected a Starfleet ship was hidden somewhere in there system. And since when has an enemies plausible deniability stopped the Klingons from attacking?
Now you're just ignoring what I tell you. I answered your point with a reasonable possibility. You might not agree, but at least acknowledge that it's there. Furthermore, as you said, Klingons are not stupid. Would they go to war over an unknown foe that wiped out a patrol ? They have no clue who it was. At best, they know an unidentified ship was accosted.

10. The things which differentiated Star Trek from Star Wars are not overtly present or really noticeable in STID.
That was not your claim, but I'll humour you: what are those differences ?

11. Yes it did, it suffered from fatigue, and now it's going to die from oversimplification and a lack of identity.
Again you are confusing your opinion for objective reality. Star Trek can be horrible for you and yet successful, or vice versa.

12. STID and TOS are worlds apart: special effects, characters, pace, plot, morality, ethics, sci-fi. They are north and south, up and down, east and west... You get the picture!
I get the picture but I disagree with you. And who cares about special effects in such a comparison ? You know I was talking about the plot and themes of the original show. Several posters are on record here saying they find the parallels quite apparent.

13. Box office revenues are no guarantee of quality or of a continued existence of a franchise.
I agree about quality, but they definitely are a guarantee of continued existence. In fact, they are the ONLY THING that offers such a guarantee, since movie making is a business.

Unfortunately the STID formula (nonsensical plot, cartoonish extreme characters, lack of pacing, emotional frenzy and oversimplification; this applies to many other new sci-fi movies to) is going to be repeated again should there be another sequel.
Oh, so you'd rather Trek to be dead than to be different from what you want ?

Besides a franchise which does the same old formula, or worse still rips off directly from older episodes or movies, is going to stagnate very quickly.
1) The Friday the 13th movies made ten entries with exactly the same recipe.
2) STID and ST09 are very different movies. Same genre, I'll grant you.

If a third movie will be made it will more than likely be a disaster because the writers will just do the same thing and make it really obvious and dumbed down.
You don't know that. And your use of the word "likely" allows you to not have to acknowledge your error once it's not a disaster.

Any new Star Trek films will go down STID's route. Which is why I pray the next ST director and writers will come up with something which is thought-provoking and has the balls to go at its pace and not pander to the audience.
If they don't pander to the audience, who, exactly, do you want them to pander to ?
And that's my opinion.
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