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Old June 25 2013, 01:52 AM   #4352
Ln X
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Belz... wrote: View Post
Ln X wrote: View Post
I know exactly how Spock took it
Well your comments in this thread indicate that you don't.

seeing ones planet be destroyed is several orders of magnitude worse than seeing ones best friend die.
Ever heard of the expression "the straw that broke the camel's back" ?



So it's realistic, then.



Sure it does. We've discussed that at length.



By what metric ?



You might have missed it in the first movie, but he had a very, very different childhood from Prime Kirk.



Then I'll say this for him, he's consistent.



Yeah but we're talking about Odo, here. Vulcans have much more violent emotions than humans.



How would the Klingons know Starfleet was even there ? Plausible deniability.



Oh, I wish people would stop making that parallel. The new Trek movies are NOTHING like Star Wars. Action doesn't equal Star Wars.



Actually it almost withered away and died for the reverse reason.



It felt like TOS, actually. Quite a bit.

This is not reinventing Star Trek, instead this is killing the franchise
Please do not confuse your appreciation for a movie with its level of success. The box office revenues disagree with you.

And finally two more points: Starfleet feels too much like an army and those caps really suck!
Starfleet has always felt like the military, and they've had caps before. They just never wore them. Hell, there was one in the very first pilot.
1. I do know how he took it.

2. Maybe Spock would have cracked if he had really known Kirk well or they were friends, but Spock disliked Kirk's style of captaincy, so the emotional connection is not there.

3. It is no where near realistic, the fact we have Kirk as captain with less than two years of experience as a Starfleet officer throws professionalism and career advancement out of the window. Films are not realistic but some are far more implausible than others, STID is such a film.

4. So admiral Marcus wants a war, big deal, the movie just uses this as emotional shlock just to get the emotions pumping with Kahn, Kirk, Spock and Uhura. Marcus is just a one-dimensional character and the really interesting bit -- an admiral wanting to start a war -- is just brushed aside.

5. By the metric of Vulcan discipline, emotional restraint and what we know about Vulcans and Spock in general.

6. Then giving his background what were Starfleet thinking making him the captain of the Enterprise? What makes Kirk so special (seriously the movie gives you the answer; pure dumb luck) when should it be Spock as the captain?

7. Agreed, consistently bad and stupid.

8. So do changelings, they have a mean temper and a powerful racist streak. Odo had some festering emotions to yet he composed himself with dignity. Ironically Spock in this movie talks about dignity and how clinging to his Vulcan ideals is the answer yet conveniently forgets them at the end.

9. The Klingons are not that stupid, they would have suspected a Starfleet ship was hidden somewhere in there system. And since when has an enemies plausible deniability stopped the Klingons from attacking? Klingons don't work that way, and maybe that could have worked had the movie's adversary been say the Romulans or Cardassians. But Klingons are something different.

10. The things which differentiated Star Trek from Star Wars are not overtly present or really noticeable in STID.

11. Yes it did, it suffered from fatigue, and now it's going to die from oversimplification and a lack of identity.

12. STID and TOS are worlds apart: special effects, characters, pace, plot, morality, ethics, sci-fi. They are north and south, up and down, east and west... You get the picture!

13. Box office revenues are no guarantee of quality or of a continued existence of a franchise. There is nothing truly distinguishable or special about the NuTrek characters, and from the basis of just two movies we still know rather little about them, we think we know them well cos of TOS but they are a totally different set of characters due to the altered timeline. The only reason we had two new trek films was because Hollywood was running out of franchises to rape/monetize.

Unfortunately the STID formula (nonsensical plot, cartoonish extreme characters, lack of pacing, emotional frenzy and oversimplification; this applies to many other new sci-fi movies to) is going to be repeated again should there be another sequel. But Hollywood will be too scared to try something really different, so they'll want the same tired old formula in the hopes that it will lure hundreds of millions of dollars. They are NEVER going to change from this formula because these days it is not about the films it is about the money and the tens of millions paid for advertising and actor's salaries (which comprise the bulk of a film's costs).

Besides a franchise which does the same old formula, or worse still rips off directly from older episodes or movies, is going to stagnate very quickly. Now Star Trek is at the mercy of an audience whose sense of artistic style is utter trivia, and who go to see films for escapism and for no other merit. With STID, Star Trek has lost its distinctiveness, and if you can tell me ten things which made this movie really stand out from the rest of the crowd this year and the last one well... You couldn't because this movie is just a remake or adaptation of TWOK, we've seen it before, it has been done to death before.

If a third movie will be made it will more than likely be a disaster because the writers will just do the same thing and make it really obvious and dumbed down. But have no fear because even if the third movie fails or doesn't garner the success and money Hollywood wants, we will have another reboot in several years time and once more the franchise can be monetized. STID just condemned Star Trek to that future, JJ Abrams could have done something different he could have taken a more ballsy approach or tried to emulate some of Trek's more finer qualities: politics, morality, actual character development, character studies and ethics.

Any new Star Trek films will go down STID's route. Which is why I pray the next ST director and writers will come up with something which is thought-provoking and has the balls to go at its pace and not pander to the audience. Maybe a miracle will happen, but my hopes for that are very low indeed.
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