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Old June 24 2013, 08:36 PM   #624
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness & The Bechdel Test

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
Pauln6 wrote: View Post
Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
Compared to Star Trek, it isn't.

Because when it comes to gender stereotypes, "zero" is still preferable to "one third."
Star Trek has plenty of its own gender stereotypes!
The last two movies managed to steer clear of them to a fairly large degree.
Winona Kirk is primarily a wife and mother in that she does nothing else on screen, Amanda is primarily a wife and mother, Gaila is primarily a girlfriend, Nanzeen Contractor is playing a mother whose role was tiny compared to her husband, and Nero mourns his absent wife. Uhura's role in the first film was expanded primarily because of her relationship with Spock, although they found a better balance in the sequel. NuTrek doesn't steer clear of traditional gender roles at all it's just that so few of its women are more than a handful of lines that they barely have a role, let alone a gender role. Even Voyager, which had some decent female characters, had Kes as a carer and girlfriend, Wildman only ever in pregnancy and mommy episodes, Seven of Nine in a massive boob suit, and Seska vamping it up between Chakotay and the Kazon dude. The Romulan commander in Nemesis tries to shag Shinzon the first chance she gets.

Think about what you are saying. Do you want only homosexual relationships and no heroic, masculine males? It's the mixture that's more important.
That's just it, though: I could count on one hand the number of openly homosexual characters depicted in science fiction between two men. The most prominent of these is Captain Jack Harkness from the Doctor Who universe.

In the context of the portrayal of homosexuals in scifi -- and that's what we're talking about, portrayal -- you would prefer we add an additional gay character and not mind if one of them is portrayed as a limp-wristed nancy boy serving as Torchwood's interior decorator.

When it comes to portrayal, a single GOOD character is worth fifty stereotypes. Quality is more important than quantity in that regard.
Er, hello, card waving poof here - I think I know plenty about the absence of gay men in sci fi. I said ONLY homosexual relationships because heterosexual relationships are a gender stereotype. One good character may be worth fifty stereotypes but when you have fifty different characters, some of them are going to be gender stereotypes. Why do you think stereotypes ARE stereotypes?

Do I think that we should never have a camp male character because camp men are a gay stereotype? Newsflash - I know plenty of camp gay men and it doesn't offend me if they are featured on TV. What is worse is when that is the ONLY kind of gay character that's on TV, which is not the case today anywhere near like it was in the seventies and eighties.

If we have a lot of women and two thirds of them are not stereotypical, that is a great step forward from just a few non-stereotypical women. It's also worth noting that the two-thirds non-stereotypical women in Defiance leads to us having more non-stereotypical women than Trek has even with the alleged and contested absence of gender stereotypes.
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