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Old June 23 2013, 04:28 PM   #582
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness & The Bechdel Test

CommishSleer wrote: View Post
Pauln6 wrote: View Post
The debate is whether STiD should be in a sexist setting. TOS was sexist and Enterprise stuck with the official gender divide for the sake of canon, although it was abandoned by TMP.
My perspective is a little different on this. I regarded TOS, TNG and ENT as sexist and the TOS/TNG movies to some extent carried this on if you want to look at it from a strict feminist perspective. Not more sexist than the equivalent series/movies made at the same time though.

Even if you include VOY and DS9 I can only think of one human woman who ever took over the command position (even temporarily) on the series' ship/space station - Janeway.
Except maybe Shelby did in TNG and I'm not counting Troi's and Crusher's one off play at command.

Even in DS9, the human women were wives and mothers
So now the women don't count as much because they weren't "human?" You make it seem like the inclusive nature of the series is a bad thing. Just because Kira was Bajoran (and really, the only thing that looks different about them is the ridge of the nose) that means that her taking command of the station doesn't count. Your emphasis on "human," or race rather, seems a little problematic to me.

Honestly, I think the women on DS9 were handled very well. And the human women weren't just wives and mothers. Keiko was a teacher and and a talented botanist. She didn't just sit around with the kids:

Memory Alpha wrote:
"In 2371, Keiko joined an agrobiology expedition on Bajor, where she served as chief botanist."
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Keiko_O%27Brien

You also had that kind of snotty lady Vice Admiral that Sisko had to answer to, Alynna Nechayev:

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Alynna_Nechayev

Sisko's wife died in the pilot, but she was also a Starfleet officer, and we got to see her as a career woman in the Mirrorverse. Although she seemed to form a bond with Ben and particularly with Jake, she was neither a wife nor a mother:

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Jenn...o_%28mirror%29

Then you had Cassidy Yates, who for most of the series was neither a wife nor a mother. She was very clearly a career woman, a freighter captain, who stayed in touch with her family (her brother played baseball, and that was one thing he had in common with Sisko).

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Kasidy_Yates-Sisko

These are the "human" women that come to mind right now, but there may be more. Needless to say, humans and other races (and their genders) were handled very well on DS9. Much better than Into Darkness, and of course this series passes the Bechdel Test.

And since we're talking about being spouses and parents, I think it's only fair to mention that Sisko, Worf, and O'brien were each fathers and husbands on the series. That was handled very well too, imo. And since we're pointing it out, out of the 3, Worf is of course the non-human.
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