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Old June 22 2013, 04:28 PM   #45
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Re: Did Ron Moore get the Klingons / Romulans the wrong way round in T

Christopher wrote: View Post
TheSubCommander wrote: View Post
In TSFS, Kruge, though he was a renegade (much like Kirk was as well), Kruge was doing what he thought was honorable for the Klingon Empire and even seemed to treat Kirk with respect (momentarily) when he first found out he had Kirk's son killed.
Hmm, I never got that impression. Kruge always struck me as being about as nasty and malicious a Klingon as we ever saw.

Also, one must remember most of the time when someone is referring to Romulans as sneaks, betrayers, and dishonorable, it is usually Worf or some other klingon, and their view is not exactly unbiased (Worf in particular since his parents were killed by Romulans, and he almost had to take the wrap for a Duras\Romulan plot).
Excellent point. People are often too quick to assume that anything asserted by a character in a story is the absolute truth. But people constantly say things that aren't true or accurate. They have prejudices, they make mistakes, they lie to themselves or others to serve their agendas, or they just have honest differences of interpretation. In fiction, as in real life, one person's unsubstantiated assertions only tell you what that person believes, not what's objectively true. It's always important to question their motives or biases, to be aware of what might be coloring their view.

So, I think Ron Moore only expanded upon the Klingons and Romulans as they had been previously portrayed and did not intend a role reversal.
As I said before, it's a mistake to define the question as though it were exclusively Moore's responsibility. He didn't even join the writing staff until the third season, by which point TNG's portrayals of both Klingons and Romulans had already been established. And he was never more than a junior staff member on TNG -- he was only a story editor in seasons 3-4 and a co-producer on seasons 5-6, only becoming a full producer in season 7. However much his Klingon-centric scripts may have stood out to the viewers, he was working under several other people, especially Michael Piller and Jeri Taylor.

It's probably Maurice Hurley, who scripted "Heart of Glory" and was the showrunner of TNG's second season, who deserves the lion's share of the credit for defining TNG-era Klingons, even if Moore is remembered for how he subsequently took that definition and ran with it.

Very good points. Regarding Kruge, he definitely was written as the villain and definitely was coldblooded and nasty (killing his lover and the rest of the smuggling vessel in the beginning, having unarmed hostages murdered, in fact wanting to take hostages in the first place). But when I say he was driven by honor, I mean his own sense of honor code, even if it was warped.

As to Ron Moore following suit, IMHO, he gets the credit or blame (depending on how you look at it) for the Klingons and Romulans, but when it comes to the Klingons, as you correctly point out, he only continue the tone started with the introduction of Worf, and the episode Heart of Glory.

And really, they HAD to change the Klingons a little bit, and make them more honorable, because if they were all dishonorable, bloodthirsty betrayers like TOS Kor, wouldn't it violate the Federations' basic principles to ally themselves with the Klingons? I mean the very term Empire in Klingon Empire indicates that the Klingons take over world by force. So they had to tone down their villainy somehow, hence the code of honor concept.

Likewise, the Romulans seem almost honorable in TOS. Even the Commander in BOT says to Kirk, "In another reality, I might have called you friend." The female Commander was acting completely honorable to Spock, and showed the Enterprise mercy for his sake. In fact, in the Enterprise Incident, technically speaking, it was the Federation that was in the wrong in this case...they violated Romulan space and treaty, and stole the Romulan's new cloaking device! So, when it comes to the TNG era, is it any wonder that the Romulans were made more villainous?

Personally, I always had hoped that there would have been a peace between the Romulans and Federation, though the reboot movie put a nail in that coffin forever. It seemed that they were moving that direction between Spock going to Romulus, the Federation-Romulan alliance during the Dominion war, and the friendly overtures of Donatra to Picard, during the battle with the Scimitar. It is unfortunate we didn't get at least one more TNG movie before the reboot because I think it would have been possible to end the TNG era with a peace between the Romulans and Federation.
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