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Old June 20 2013, 09:18 PM   #457
Pauln6's Avatar
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
Re: Star Trek Into Darkness & The Bechdel Test

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
Like a poor marksman, you keep missing the target. Continuing to say the scene was "blatant" and "gratuitous" and not acknowledging that other levels of intent to the scene exist IS THE PROBLEM. Are you not aware of what "gratuitous" means?
I am. Just as you are you are aware that I have acknowledged the other levels of the scene and that I have expressly stated that it was only the shot of Carol in her undies that was gratuitous. All the other levels of the scene could have worked just like Raiders of the Lost Ark, without flashing lots of skin and cleaveage on screen.

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
There are certainly many strong female characters in GoT, but there are many more who are just treated horribly (though to be fair, so are many men). Now, given the medieval setting (even in a fictional universe), that is somewhat to be expected, because women weren't treated well then to say the least, but to try and say it depicts women in a better light than Star Trek as a franchise does is astonishing in its shortsightedness to me.
This makes my point for me. I did not mean to say that GoT depicts women in a better light - the nature of the setting precludes that. What I said is that you get a lot of women in diverse roles. You also get men in diverse roles. You get lots of men AND women in diverse roles. The nature of the Trek setting does not preclude showing women in a better light, it simply isn't implemented. With more women, we should see women in diverse roles. QED.

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
Also, there are women all over the place on the Enterprise, especially on the bridge (but also in the brig, sickbay, and engineering).
Name six of them.

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
Pauln6 wrote: View Post
Lol - an officer has to be able to do the job of an officer. How can he give orders if he has no way to communicate? My issue is with the way Keenser is portrayed as a joke alien. If he were portrayed in a way that demonstrated he could do the job, I'd be fine. He doesn't even use a universal translator.
Besides the fact that --as mentioned-- he's spoken English dialogue in the films, we have Scotty mention that he talks too much.

All you need to know is that Scotty... trusts Keenser to work on the engines implicitly. That's all the evidence you really need or can reasonably expect about a secondary to a secondary character in four hours of screentime.
Lol - so what you are saying is that there is no actual evidence that he would make a good officer, we just have to assume that he is because he's there. That's what I said to start with but my issue is that there is no evidence while you are happy to assume that if he's there he deserves to be there.

Neither one of us is right or wrong but the upshot is that there is no evidence to support that Lt Keenser is a great chief beyond the fact that he must be because he is.
Star Trek/Babylon 5/Alien crossover

Other Worlds Role Playing Game

Last edited by Pauln6; June 20 2013 at 09:32 PM.
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