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Old June 14 2013, 10:48 AM   #145
Idealistic Cynic and Canon Champion
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Re: J.J. Abrams enters The Twilight Zone

Sindatur wrote: View Post
But, it was a no win sccenario, the only way to win is change the program, to allow whatever "Real World action" Kirk took. Once he hacked into the system and started monkeying with the program, there really aren't degrees to the offense. You either condem winning by monkeying with the program, or you don't condemn it. you can't condemn one instance, but, not another.

Going by PrimeKirk, in the movie, the way they said "solution" definitely hinted at PrimeKirk's solution being outside the parameters of the test.

There really isn't a difference between using a copy of the test answer sheet to answer 5 questions versus using it to answer 20 questions, both instances, IMHO, are still cheating and you either approve of both isntances or you condemn both.
Hacking the program is wrong either way, but that's not the point. Hacking the program is all nuKirk did. What PrimeKirk did was not use a copy of the test answers-- he added his own option to a multiple-choice test. They offered him A and B and he came up with C. That showed them his potential.

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
All that we know is that Kirk distinctly says he "reprogrammed the simulation" and "changed the conditions of the test to make it possible to rescue the ship" in TWoK. It's explicitly stated in both cases that he reprogrammed the computer to allow him to win. Anything else you're tossing in there to make TWoK Kirk look better in this situation because of your dislike of ST09 is just baseless speculation.
No, nuTrek did not exist when TWOK came out. When I-- and everybody I've ever known or spoken to until this thread-- understood is that Kirk found a way to beat the no-win scenario. He came up with his own option that the Academy had not considered. He beat the conditions of the test. That was the whole point of the scene and why it was punctuated with the unexpected rescue. The idea that he simply hacked the program and stuck in a dumb-ass cheat code never occurred to anybody. How would that earn him a commendation? If anything, retconning what PrimeKirk did is an attempt to make excuses for the reboot.

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
But that's not what happened. Kirk (or Gaila on his behalf) simply reprogrammed the scenario to drop the Klingon shields. Kirk then ordered one (presumably fully energized) torpedo to each unshielded Klingon ship, destroying them all.
Whatever. In a real situation, the Klingon shields aren't going to just drop and let you blow them up.

Would the film have depicted something more praiseworthy, if instead Gaila had stolen simulated prefix codes for the warbirds, that Kirk handed to an operations cadet in the simulation to use to order the warbirds to lower their shields?
If there was some way that Kirk could have had Klingon prefix codes or something, that certainly would have been better. As you say, that's very unlikely. But, again, it would have to be something that could happen in the real world, something that demonstrated Kirk's potential, not just magic.
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