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Old June 12 2013, 04:45 AM   #138
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Re: Atheism, and "Bread and Circuses"

So, I'm beginning to see more clearly now that the ancient astronaut theorist and the vicious gaytheist fanboy throngs are the ones to watch out for. Kindly forgive my tardy reply, but s/o brought home a lovely bottle of wine last night and I got a little too drunky brewster to post anything, anywhere.

Lance wrote: View Post
My reading is that in Kirk's time there are religions, both Earth based and those of other planets, and that people do believe in deitys etc... but just that the people who believe and the people who don't believe aren't in conflict with each other anymore. Everybody just respects everybody else's P-O-V.
WANT... for this thread plz.

iguana_tonante wrote: View Post
Shawnster wrote: View Post
Tell me what you believe, not what you don't.
Why not?

stj wrote: View Post
I was just reading Paul Levinson's The Plot to Save Socrates, which alludes to Hypatia. Hypatia was a pagan philosopher and mathematician in Byzantine Alexandria during the reign of the regent empress Pulcheria and the floruit of St. Cyril. A Christian crowd seized her from the streets and dragged her into a Christian church. There they stripped her. Then, the reports differ, they either beat her to death (or stoned her) with tiles, or they scraped her flesh from her bones with oyster shells. (The difference hinges on the contextual meaning of word that can mean either.) Her body was hacked to pieces and burnt. Enjoy the happy thoughts!
I suppose that being lynched to death was not much of a rarity during antiquity, but when presented with such cases, I usually think "maybe she had it coming." There are divergent historical accounts of the event, but none of us were there to witness it, and hence no proof, right? One can suppose from her works that the lifelong ambition of Madalyn Murray O'Hair was total separation from God. And I think it became a self-fulfilling prophecy in that instance. Perhaps Hypatia was an idolatress, or had some other death wish for complete separation from God. Hard to know for sure, but I do know I'd not much prefer to go out like MMO or Hypatia.

stj wrote: View Post
The electromagnetic vector potential is an unobservable, to date (i.e., the last time I looked.) But you're not Dr. Lester, so I'm quite sure that you will not accept one example. Let me add then, the past. And, here's a third, society.
Yeah, but you know I put my question about the application of science to the unobservable and the incalculable in the conjunctive. Are you saying science has considered the electromagnetic vector potential without performing computations or making determinations? Perhaps you could elucidate us as to why there is no collectable data available on the past and society. Maybe archaeologists believe otherwise.

stj wrote: View Post
As for the "incalculable," this apparently means "deterministic," which rather overlooks the role of statistics in science.
It is apparent only to those familiarized with the concept of synonyms.

I have always thought that atheists shared several beliefs in common. They must believe their existence has its origin in something other than their Creator. Would it not also be a belief to think that matter has the ability to arrange itself over zillions of years into increasingly complex forms? I also identify as a belief that the four fundamental forces, and the Earth's orbit, being precisely balanced for life on this planet must be one hellofa coincidence.

If you disbelieve in God, and another disbelieves in atheism, why can't each respect the other's disbelief?

I have no qualms with anybody defining their own beliefs or lack thereof. This is part of what freedom of religion means. What I think is pret-ty sad is redefining entries in the dictionary, or otherwise engaging in semantics, to justify intolerance... on an internet messageboard (!!!). I agree that the term "Bible thumper" is vitriolic and disparaging. It's just hard to see how anyone can roll up into this thread and atheist thump all they want out of one side of their mouth, and gripe about Bible thumping out of the other side.

Bread and Circuses illustrates a good point. Spock came to the wrong conclusion based on observation of the available facts. It wasn't until Uhura added in the missing fact, the missing piece of the puzzle, that those on the bridge realized they reached an erroneous conclusion about the sun/Son. Two hundred years from now, mankind could most likely think that what science teaches us today is outmoded and maybe even silly, just like we think about many scientific notions 200 years before us. I can't put my full faith in that. Nobody in this thread has solved all the mysteries of the universe, and collected all the pieces to the puzzle of our existence. Without the missing facts, anyone is prone to make an erroneous conclusion, just like sciency Spock.

Didn't science once inform us that the universe was infinite, and at other times limited, that the data shows the universe was expanding, and sometimes the conclusion is that it is contracting?

The atheists posting in this thread have not agreed among themselves what they disbelieve other than God's existence, and what, if anything, they do believe in. I give MMO a tremendous amount of credit in the promotion of atheism, and she is probably qualified to pontificate on what atheism is or isn't just as well as anyone else, probably better. When she says that atheists love themselves, their fellow man, and no god, that doesn't seem to me to leave much room for abounding love. Atheists do not return God's love. Many atheists in this thread won't love their fellow post-ers without pre-approval of their beliefs. So that leaves loving yourself, something a little selfish. Perhaps this accounts in part for the lack of popularity of atheism. Atheism should offer something better. How about a little hope and selflessness? This being-hateful Herbert-to-the-hilt shtick is gross.

I come here to be entertained, to read the fun, to read the funny, to enjoy the creative. Like Gath said on VOY, "I don't enjoy being judged like this. It's very upsetting. Not at all pleasurable." It just seems like if we can't make this thread Trekker Lovefest 2013, an ongoing discussion is pointless and hopeless. Besides, if I'm ever going to make it to lt. cdr., I need to start making shorter posts, and perfecting my arguments as to why Janeway is both the best and the worst captain in the Starfleet seems a lot more appealing at this moment in time.

Thus, kindly allow me to leave you with some parting words of encouragement and the sort. First, if your knees are knocking before the Judge of the Living and of the Dead, the defense of "I disbelieve" or "I am faithless" may not be of too much help. Why not try harder? We can be "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth". "let God be true, but every man a liar". "seek, and you will find".

May God richly bless our bbs staff, and all those in this thread who express tolerance, hope for the future, peace, and above all, love of your fellow Trekkers.

So you see, that, as they say, is that.


Your Pal Seska
"We are not in the mood, Herbert."
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