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Old June 11 2013, 11:56 PM   #80
Crazy Eddie
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Re: Why Let Khan Live?

You're really gonna do this, Timo? You're really going down that road?

Timo wrote: View Post
Kirk and crew had NO INTENTION of getting involved, per the prime directive.
Exactly. But when his own life became threatened, he threw out the rulebook. As usual. Even though the Prime Directive actually says that when his life is threatened and there's no way out, he should die ("Omega Glory").
You know what KHAN does when his life is threatened? HE TRIES TO KILL EVERYONE. On two separate occasions we saw him set his ship/superweapon on self-destruct mode just to make sure that everyone -- enemies and allies alike -- would go down with him. In "Into Darkness" he sets his ship to try and crash into San Francisco just because Spock had outsmarted him. These actions establish a pattern that Khan is a murdering psychopath.

Accordingly, I suspect he did something similar in his domain on Earth when he was finally deposed, setting off nuclear warheads hidden in the major population centers his enemies had already captured. Nothing like a nuclear holocaust to mask the launch of a DY-100 class spaceship.

So, you think he and the entire crew of the Enterprise should have herded themselves into the disintegration chambers?
Yes. He swore an oath to do exactly that when he joined.
No he did not. The Prime Directive does not bind Starfleet officers to obey the laws of other cultures, especially cultures who are already aware of the existence of alien life. It's even questionable whether or not the prime directive actually applied to the Eminians for that very reason.

The Federation did that. Kirk did that. Had the Organians been real mortals, Kirk would have been their factual executioner.
Yes, Kirk put a gun to Kor's head and ORDERED him to round up hundreds of Organians and have them executed as an example to others.

Implying, of course, that the crew of Regula-1 "factually" tortured and murdered themselves by refusing to tell Khan where Genesis was.

Quite so - we are talking about excuses.
No, we are talking about the moral/immoral actions made by political and military officials. You can demonize a man for doing good things or celebrate a man for doing evil things, but that's ideology, not morality.

We have a pretty good understanding of what Khan's ideology is, and it's clear that Khan doesn't think he's doing anything wrong. Probably, neither do any of his followers. We also understand Kirk's ideology and we understand that Kirk and his followers don't think they're doing anything wrong. The difference between the two is what they respectively think isn't wrong. Khan believes that sabotage, terrorism, torture and mass murder are acceptable (possibly even preferable) means to achieve his goals. Kirk is not known to use torture and avoids killing people when possible. Their MORAL positions are not even comparable.

Kirk kills people for excuses' sake...
[citation needed]

Come to think of it, I'm seeing that Kirk's bodycount throughout the entire run of TOS and all of the TMP movies is amazingly low. He even makes a big deal out of not killing the Gorn because maybe -- just MAYBE -- they had a reason for doing what they did.

Abramsverse Kirk kills more people in the first movie than he did in his entire career in the Prime Timeline, and comes out of the second without a single confirmed kill.

Naah. You have merely demonstrated that you are a naiive person who could well be voted the Member Most Likely to Condone Genocide for a Good-Sounding Reason.
And yet if Kirk had ever ACTUALLY committed genocide, you might have a point. Khan, on the other hand, didn't merely threaten genocide, he was FAMOUS for it.

So it's a bit like comparing Lieutenant John Pike to Charles Whitman. The former may be a bit of an asshole, but that's a big stretch from climbing a clocktower and randomly shooting a bunch of people.

The trouble seems to be that you can't recognize TOS for what it objectively is: an ultra-conservative 1960s show about a military man who unquestioningly fights for a single philosophy and mercilessly stomps down others.
I've been on this board a lot of years, Timo, I've seen a lot of strange things come out of your posts, but this one in particular is gonna rate a special exhibit in the "Weird Shit Timo Comes Up With" hall of fame.
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