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Old June 11 2013, 07:09 PM   #119
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Re: Into Darkness and the novelverse [SPOILERS]

hbquikcomjamesl wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
According to the Countdown to Darkness comic,
That assumes that comics are canon. Which would give them canonical seniority over novels.
I assume nothing. I merely report what the comics said. Whether you choose to believe it is up to you; I simply made the information available.

That assumes that the Abramsverse does coexist alongside Prime.
Yes, of course it does. That's what the filmmakers have always intended, and I see no reason to believe otherwise. Nobody wants the Prime timeline to have been wiped out of existence, so I see no reason to entertain the notion, particularly since we know for a definitive fact that it goes against the intent of the work. There are times when it's useful or desirable to choose an interpretation that differs from the original intent, but I see no reason why this should be such an instance.

Of course, now that I think about it, the existence of Spock Prime in the Abramsverse does support that assertion, but then again, arguably, the universe in which Edith Keeler unwittingly allowed the Nazis to win the war, and the universe in which Spock died in a secretly self-initiated "practice Kahs-Wan," and Thelin was Kirk's science officer, both coexist alongside the Prime universe.
Indeed -- "Yesteryear" had dialogue strongly implying that Spock expected Thelin's timeline to continue even after Spock "restored" his own. The Keeler timeline is a more ambiguous case; the episode indicated that it had overwritten the Prime timeline, but Crucible: McCoy pretty much went with the coexistence assumption, I think. But one thing I established in Watching the Clock is that both situations -- "overwriting" and stable coexistence -- can arise, depending on the conditions of the time travel.

As for the Abramsverse, indeed, the fact that Spock Prime has made no effort to "restore" the original history is the clearest evidence that he doesn't believe the original history has been jeopardized or unmade.

And who said anything about another red-matter-induced time incursion (assuming the red matter had anything to do with the time incursion)? If the red-matter device aboard the Jellyfish had been deployed in time to save Romulus, then the time incursion creating the Abramsverse never would have happened.
You're forgetting the specifics of the movie. Spock arrived too late to save Romulus, yes, but he did deploy the Red Matter to stop the supernova so that other worlds wouldn't be destroyed (according to the film's rather muddled claims about astrophysics). When Nero attacked Spock, both their ships fell into the black hole created by the Red Matter, and that's how they went back in time in the first place.

Oh, and I almost forgot: Daniels would be involved because my scenario assumes that the "Hobus Event" was not naturally occurring, and that both it and the Vulcans' inexplicable and illogical delays in making the red-matter available to remedy it, were in fact a new front heating up in the Temporal Cold War.
Well, first off, surely Daniels isn't the only Temporal Agent in the entire 29th century. There's no way one guy could be responsible for monitoring all of history. In WTC, I assumed he was responsible specifically for monitoring events in local space in the era preceding the founding of the Federation. I created a different Temporal Agent, Jena Noi, to be the one in charge of monitoring the late 24th-century Federation and its surroundings.

Second, all any observer in the Prime timeline knows is that Spock and Nero fell into a black hole and disappeared. Since it was a black hole rather than a wormhole, the travel of matter or information would've presumably been one-way; so nobody in Prime would even necessarily be aware that another timeline had been created.

As for the rest, your interpretations of Hobus are strictly your own. Even if there were some anomalous circumstances surrounding it, that doesn't prove that time travelers were the responsible parties.
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