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Old June 11 2013, 05:03 PM   #118
Paper Moon
Re: Into Darkness and the novelverse [SPOILERS]

Christopher wrote: View Post
Paper Moon wrote: View Post
That's a fair point. I think it may possibly have been both; Roddenberry hoping that the more progressive message would come through to those who could hear it, and the network muckymucks hoping to play to the base racism that was still omnipresent among so many Americans during the late sixties.
Actually, network execs at the time were actively promoting racial inclusion in their shows because studies had proven the buying power of minorities and TV advertisers had realized they were missing out on a potential market. That's why we got a diverse TOS cast that included Sulu and Uhura. It's not something Roddenberry pushed through despite network racism; just the opposite. Roddenberry had promised an ethnically diverse crew to the network, but "The Cage" had a completely white cast, and even the one token Hispanic character in the original proposal ended up being played by a blond guy and having his name changed from Ortegas to Tyler. That was one of the reasons NBC rejected the first pilot: because Roddenberry hadn't given them the ethnic diversity they'd asked for. (Source: Inside Star Trek by Solow & Justman.)

Although, granted, that was mainly seen as including African-Americans. There were still a lot of pervasive Orientalist stereotypes, and nobody had a problem with the idea of depicting Klingons as "space Mongols." So giving the villain an "Oriental" name would've played right into those conventions. So you may have a point. I prefer not to assume intentional malice without evidence, however.
Ha, that's really cool, I never knew all that! Thank you!

That's actually awesome. Hadn't heard that; if you don't mind my asking, do you have a source?
IIRC, it was one of Roberto Orci's comments in a thread on, but I can't seem to find the quote at the moment. Maybe I'm misremembering and I read it somewhere else.
I vaguely remember Orci saying on TrekMovie that Harrison was originally gonna be called "Ericssen," but then they changed it because fans would get it too easily. (Which is sort of crazy [in a cool way] when you think about it.) My understanding was that they changed it at the writing stage, not the post-production stage. But my memory of this is very vague.

What you say is true, but beside the point, I think.
Depends on which point it is. I was just addressing the question of reconciling the two actors in-story. You're talking about a deeper issue of social values and perception.
Oh, yes, certainly. And I definitely agree with you about how to reconcile the two actors from an in-universe perspective.

When the Enterprise is thrown out of warp due to sabotage, they are close enough to send the scout ship to Kronos (and are close enough to see Kronos way off in the distance; it's really small, easy to miss if you aren't looking carefully); their orders were to go "to the edge of the Neutral Zone" and as far as I know, they never said anything about having broken those orders.
The scout ship presumably had warp drive, as I said. (It certainly did in the Countdown to Darkness comic.) And are you sure the planet visible in the distance was Kronos? After all, if you were in Sol's Oort Cloud, you absolutely could not see Earth from there, not without a damn powerful telescope. Heck, we've never actually imaged any object within the Oort Cloud due to its great distance; we only extrapolate its existence because it's the most likely source for long-period comets.
Right, as I said earlier (and looking back now, I screwed up the quote blocks, making it look a bit like you said it; will try to fix it now), I only think it might have been the filmmakers' intention to have the Neutral Zone be visible from the Oort Cloud, strictly for dramatic purposes. Obviously the planet would not be visible from a real Oort Cloud.

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
I thought the planet visible on the viewscreen was the planetoid where McCoy and Carol opened the torpedo?
Ooh, that would make sense. Hmm. I had felt that it was the filmmakers' intention for it to be Kronos off in the distance, because it felt like the simplest explanation at the time. But I had forgotten about the apparently M-class planetoid. If I watch the film at the movies again, I'll have to keep an eye out. Otherwise, I'll see what I can figure out on the DVD in the fall.
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