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Old June 10 2013, 10:12 PM   #104
Gov Karnstein
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Location: Gov Kodos Regretably far from Boston
Re: Atheism, and "Bread and Circuses"

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Gov Kodos wrote: View Post
Seska wrote: View Post
I would amend my question, by instead asking:

Seeing as we both agree that the positive content of atheism is a belief system, would you also agree that those who share your beliefs should accord respect to those with differing beliefs?
Atheism, or more accurately perhaps, viewing life through a materialistic and empirical framework is only a belief system in an extremely narrow solipsistic sense sense that one can only know what you directly experience with your senses. However, that is physical and independently verifiable by others. It is in no way a belief system like any religious sense which posits a metaphysical reality. There is no way to verify any metaphysical reality. That is completely a belief of faith, which has no way to be assayed, described, or tested independently or observed and verified by any means. Any metaphysical reality is as right and wrong as any other. God has no more claim to reality than Batman and Wonder Woman. To claim 'belief in the physical world is equally a position of belief/faith as 'belief in the metaphysical' is patent foolishness. That is the claim that too many entertain as a valid argument allowing Creationism in the classroom. It's absurd.
I'm glad you made the distinction, but it bears emphasis that it is not necessary to view life through a materialistic and empirical framework, in order to have no belief in a deity. One need not be a philosopher to be an atheist.

As it happens, most of the high-profile atheists, the ones who engage in public debate about it, are philosophers, or fancy themselves to be, but some of them are jack-asses.

In theory, someone could believe in non-empirical things, such as in aliens from other dimensions that regularly abduct people, yet still be an atheist. I don't know how many, but I'm sure there are people out there like that.

When unqualified, atheism is something very specific: an absence of a particular kind of belief, period.

Atheism is not a belief system. Any positive belief that an atheist has has another source.
That was mixing atheism up with particular philosophical views, thanks. I would argue with the alien point that the aliens are non-existent or non-empirical, rather currently undetectable. (Likely lunacy, but that's something else.) The folks in question are not purposing anything metaphysical. They do have a bad understanding of physics and probably like to throw around terms from quantum mechanics and other branches of physics, but they likely try to stay in a physical framework of the universe for their delusions.

It is the sort of poor thinking that Creationists utilize to claim their beliefs should be accounted equal to the beliefs of science, though. However, science doesn't work on belief as faith. The beliefs of science are knowledge of facts and knowledge of tested, verifiable, and replicable results. There is no issue of faith what so ever. Similarly, asserting Atheism is a belief as faith is simply wrong. It no more works from a position of faith than does science.
We are quicksilver, a fleeting shadow, a distant sound... our home has no boundaries beyond which we cannot pass. We live in music, in a flash of color... we live on the wind and in the sparkle of a star! Endora, Bewitched
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