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Old June 7 2013, 05:21 AM   #54
Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

Mojochi wrote: View Post
Tiberius wrote: View Post
Mojochi wrote: View Post
There was the likelihood of an armed conflict with the Sheliak. That didn't stop Picard from working people to exhaustion. What's necessary is necessary
Hardly the same thing. A conflict with a fleet of Cardassians is a great deal more serious than a fight with a single Sheliak ship, and the Cardassians are much more agressive. And Picard wasn't working the whole engineering staff to exhaustion
No, just his most important people. I don't suggest that the 2 situations are exactly the same, just that they share similarities in command requirements. Hence why the titles of those episodes are "Chain of Command" & "The Ensigns of Command". Plus, if it's as you say, a more serious threat, then perhaps it stands to reason that more demands would be placed on more of the crew.
What do the names of the episodes have to do with anything?

And if it's a more serious threat, then you;d want to keep your crew in a state where they can perform their duties properly, instead of introducing fatigue caused by loss of sleep as they try to adjust their sleeping schedules to have the right number of duty shifts.

but we don't run a starship. Perhaps it's not just a number, but protocol, like expecting all senior staff to be in uniform. At face value, they seem trivial, but they could be the protocols expected of a wartime vessel, that are not strictly observed in peacetime, but actually have applicable reasons, like the crew being sharper, for one.
Again, I point out that it is detrimental to stuff up your crew's sleeping schedule in order to have the right number of duty shifts when it is likely you are about to enter an armed conflict.

I can't imagine any situation where three duty shifts instead of four would cause any increased damage to the ship. The Enterprise faced the Borg with three shifts, and that seemed to go just fine. Why then would three shifts be so bad against the Cardassians?

It was stated that Jellico was given the ship "Enterprise" because the name carries weight, not because of the crew's methods, which Jellico made clear were in need of change for the mission right from the get go. He was the captain for the mission. The ship was the name they wanted there, and the crew would need to adjust accordingly. That was the directive handed down from HQ.
I don't get what you are saying here. If the important thing was that it was the Enterprise, why the need to change the way they do things? Surely the name Enterprise carries the same weight either way?

Ultimately, it is the duty of subordinate officers to assume the captain's orders have a reason, unless they have evidence to suggest he is an unfit captain, in which case, Riker should have assumed command, but that didn't happen, because he had no just cause, and just decided to sulk in his quarters
And it is also the duty of every captain to ensure he is acting in the best interests of the ship, the crew and the mission.

Riker objects without really explaining anything, except that dept. heads think it will be difficult. When Data is XO he explains that even though things will be difficult, they can be done. Jellico's response is to tell them do the difficult thing. He knows. Nothing about this mission was going to be less than difficult, & it's presumptuous to think it's all because of Jellico's personal preference. Nobody knows that
If Jellico was a good captain, he should listen to his crew and take their opinions into account. Instead, he ignores their opinions and asks them to do difficult things with no clear benefit.
The clear benefit is to save lives, and the opinions & suggestions he puts down could have been mission related. It's not logical to think he put down their opinions for personal preference reasons. That would not serve the mission at all, and since his plans panned out exactly as he expected, perhaps it's reasonable to assume he knew what he was doing, and he did only what he & Starfleet knew would result in mission success
I still do not see any clear benefit in changing the number of shift rotations. As I said before, we've seen the Enterprise go into many dangerous situations with three shifts instead of four, and it worked just fine.

Besides, the ever so frequented point about Jellico ignoring his subordinates' suggestions & opinions is just plain wrong. Riker would never have left his quarters if that were the case. It was the advice of Geordi that influenced Jellico to proposition Riker for the piloting mission in the 1st place. He considered that suggestion and followed through on it, an effort that required him to swallow his pride, go back on his executive decision to relieve Riker, and even drop ranks so he could personally ask Riker to take the mission, outside the chain of command. He did all that for the mission, on top of accepting a nearly impossible assignment to begin with
Irrelevant. The fact that jellico followed Geordie's suggestion in one instance does not mean that he never ignored his subordinate's opinions.

All Riker did was business as usual, and buck the chain when he disagreed or felt his importance was being overlooked. Riker should have jumped up and said he'd be proud to aid the mission to protect the Federation & perhaps save Picard, but instead took the opportunity to rub Jellico's nose in it, like the pompous twit he is
Oh my god, you really think Riker is so egotistic? He got pissed with Jellico because Ed was demanding the crew put themselves at risk. As I said before, Jellico's demands would have left the crew suffering fatigue as they tried to adjust long-established sleeping patterns. I'm a shift worker, so I've done it myself and I know exactly what it is like.
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